Charles I Shilling mis-attributed`?

[azda]

This was attributed as London mint, but i think it's Aberystwyth?

[coin watch]

This was attributed as London mint, but i think it's Aberystwyth?

This coin is a Tower mint issue type 3b or Sharp E2/3. The reverse has the plume above to state the silver used was from the Welsh mines!

[azda]

Is that North 2219?

[coin watch]

Is that North 2219?

No North 2226. Mint Mark Bell, crown, Crown over bell all Scarce. Mint mark Tun and fine works Very Rare!!

[azda]

Lol, ok simplify. Which spink number?

[coin watch]

Lol, ok simplify. Which spink number?

Spink 2793. (2005 to now!!)

[azda]

Thanks for that coin watch, the confusion lay because i only noticed the 1 crown MM in Spink, there is obviously 2 crowns, slightly differing in shape.

[coin watch]

Thanks for that coin watch, the confusion lay because i only noticed the 1 crown MM in Spink, there is obviously 2 crowns, slightly differing in shape.

The mint mark on this coin is crown over bell on both the obverse and reverse marks, but really does not make it any rarer than say a standard crown on it's own. But even so a scarce coin and quite a nice VF even with the corrosion.

[azda]

Thanks for that coin watch, the confusion lay because i only noticed the 1 crown MM in Spink, there is obviously 2 crowns, slightly differing in shape.

The mint mark on this coin is crown over bell on both the obverse and reverse marks, but really does not make it any rarer than say a standard crown on it's own. But even so a scarce coin and quite a nice VF even with the corrosion.

Did'nt notice it was crown over bell, now i do since you pointed it out there. Thanks again

[TomGoodheart]

It can be confusing since coins (such as yours) were struck from silver mined at Aberystwyth but at the Tower mint. There are also (Civil War period) coins produced at Aberystwyth and coins just made using dies that resemble those later used at Aberystwyth .. which are known as having 'Aberystwyth' (or 'Aberystwyth style') busts! And finally a very small number of coins, such as this one, were made at the Aberystwyth Furnace mint , where you will see the crown is slightly different (actually to me it resembles the crown used on early Charles II hammered coins):

Glad to have clarified things Dave.

Edited December 29, 2012 by TomGoodheart

[Coinery]

Lol, ok simplify. Which spink number?

You've got a copy of the Sharp article in your BNJ downloads! I found it an easy read, and very logically laid out! It's not massive either, so an hour well spent, darling!

[azda]

It was a bugger Richard, i only noticed the 1 styled crown and thats where the confusion arose. Saying that, where i bought it from had the date of 1648-49 London mint which is why i thought it was mis-attributed because 1648-9 is Aberystwyth furnace but that crown MM crown (75) is wider than crown MM (70).

But still, a pleasing coin, looking a little bright unless thats the scan. These Charles I Coins still give me a headache.

[azda]

Lol, ok simplify. Which spink number?

You've got a copy of the Sharp article in your BNJ downloads! I found it an easy read, and very logically laid out! It's not massive either, so an hour well spent, darling!

Biatch

[TomGoodheart]

But still, a pleasing coin, looking a little bright unless thats the scan. These Charles I Coins still give me a headache.

Well, pending your photos once you have it, it looks decent to me. Crisp enough in the detail, full round flan (which can be seen despite the corroded bit in the remaining edge beading) and centrally struck. And if bright, it'll tone down in time.

As for Charlies, well there's certainly plenty to the series to discover. Personally I don't know how people who collect more widely, particularly like Rob, remember all the subtleties across 1500 years worth of coins. I have enough trouble with the Tower shilling varieties alone!

[azda]

Ok, it seems Spink are getting confusing for the Chas I MMs. I'm looking in 2013 guide on page 272 and no wonder it gets confusing. On this page they have a list of MMs one of those being the crown MM 70 they have it listed on this page as 75 with date period 1635-6 and then on page 273 they have a slightly different varient of the crown MM and again its 75 but with a different date period of 1648-9 with Aberystwyth furnace, so 13 years in between both periods, no wonder it gets confusing with Spink..............2012 Spink also uses the same as above

The Brooker book does'nt list the Shilling in there for the Furnace mint at all, only Halfcrowns, sixpence, groat, threepence and halfgroats are listed, it does however list the Aberystwyth mint itself, so i'm assuming these are different again because Aberystwyth mint has plumes on the OBV, or have i missed something?

North is only slightly more clearer, with just a subtle difference between both crowns, where the middle (ornament?) of the London mint crown is more in the middle, whereas the Aberystwyth is near the bottom of the Crown I bet the civil war was started because of these bloody MMs

Edited December 30, 2012 by azda

[Coinery]

Ok, it seems Spink are getting confusing for the Chas I MMs. I'm looking in 2013 guide on page 272 and no wonder it gets confusing. On this page they have a list of MMs one of those being the crown MM 70 they have it listed on this page as 75 with date period 1635-6 and then on page 273 they have a slightly different varient of the crown MM and again its 75 but with a different date period of 1648-9 with Aberystwyth furnace, so 13 years in between both periods, no wonder it gets confusing with Spink

North is only slightly more clearer, with just a subtle difference between both crowns, where the middle (ornament?) of the London mint crown is more in the middle, whereas the Aberystwyth is near the bottom of the Crown I bet the civil war was started because of these bloody MMs

You'll find this with all the hammered mintmarks. The LIS, whether it's from the beginning of a period, or the end of a reign, or even for a different monarch, will be 105, so not really a first point of call for identification!

I do agree that North is little better, it surprises me it's still majorly used, particularly for Elizabeth. They're all in there, of course, but even Spink's breaks them down better!

[coin watch]

Ok, it seems Spink are getting confusing for the Chas I MMs. I'm looking in 2013 guide on page 272 and no wonder it gets confusing. On this page they have a list of MMs one of those being the crown MM 70 they have it listed on this page as 75 with date period 1635-6 and then on page 273 they have a slightly different varient of the crown MM and again its 75 but with a different date period of 1648-9 with Aberystwyth furnace, so 13 years in between both periods, no wonder it gets confusing with Spink..............2012 Spink also uses the same as above

The Brooker book does'nt list the Shilling in there for the Furnace mint at all, only Halfcrowns, sixpence, groat, threepence and halfgroats are listed, it does however list the Aberystwyth mint itself, so i'm assuming these are different again because Aberystwyth mint has plumes on the OBV, or have i missed something?

North is only slightly more clearer, with just a subtle difference between both crowns, where the middle (ornament?) of the London mint crown is more in the middle, whereas the Aberystwyth is near the bottom of the Crown I bet the civil war was started because of these bloody MMs

To be honest I wouldn't get too hung up with the mm's in Spink, It's only a very rough guide to show the differing mint marks used. The Tower mint mint mark crown varies a lot, on the shilling alone it has a number of subtle differences in size and shape, plus there is also the possibility that the size change maybe due to the use of say a sixpence sized mint mark used on shillings and in some cases Half Crown dies and in turn larger marks on smaller coins!

Why would you want to collect milled!!!!!

[TomGoodheart]

I think the key thing is that the Aberystwyth Furnace crown mark is very scarce indeed. Besly says there was a (single!) shilling die, but I've never seen a coin from it!

The majority of Aberystwyth coins bear Thomas Bushell's book privy mark and can be distinguished because they not only have the Prince of Wales' plumes on the reverse, but also the obverse, before the King's face.

That said, coins like yours struck from Welsh silver are scarcer. It would be an interesting exercise to collect the whole range of such coins starting with those of James I and ending in the early 1700s.

[Coinery]

I think the key thing is that the Aberystwyth Furnace crown mark is very scarce indeed. Besly says there was a (single!) shilling die, but I've never seen a coin from it!

The majority of Aberystwyth coins bear Thomas Bushell's book privy mark and can be distinguished because they not only have the Prince of Wales' plumes on the reverse, but also the obverse, before the King's face.

That said, coins like yours struck from Welsh silver are scarcer. It would be an interesting exercise to collect the whole range of such coins starting with those of James I and ending in the early 1700s.

The interesting part would presumeably be how you might multiply your monthly net income by 3 or 4 times!

T'would be a purdy collection however an' no mistakin', a real purdy collection!

[azda]

Saying all that, i actually did'nt pay very much for it, and i bought it with the intention of selling it on the bay, but as i've kept looking at the images yesterday i made the decision to keep it. Finding a few more in similar grade would be great and have a Benchmark now. Geez another side collection, just what i need

[Coinery]

Saying all that, i actually did'nt pay very much for it, and i bought it with the intention of selling it on the bay, but as i've kept looking at the images yesterday i made the decision to keep it. Finding a few more in similar grade would be great and have a Benchmark now. Geez another side collection, just what i need

Hammered copper AND hammered silver, I'd say there's a convert on the way!