1860 Farthing - BRITT: RFG: F:D: Error?

[RobJ]

I purchased an 1860 Farthing today on my travels and I noticed that it had the inscription of BRITT: RFG: F:D: instead of BRITT: REG: F:D:

I noticed that on Colin's Farthing website for the 1860 Farthing, it had listed the OBV E variety where the top bar of the E in REG: was missing.

The Farthing that I have purchased looks to me to be very similar except that it is the bottom bar of the E in REG: that is missing making it appear to read RFG:

I was wondering this was a known variation of the OBV E type or if it is a new variety?

Sadly I do not have access to my scanner this evening but I will endevour to try and upload some images tomorrow.

Any help or information is as always greatly appreciated. :}

[Peckris]

I purchased an 1860 Farthing today on my travels and I noticed that it had the inscription of BRITT: RFG: F:D: instead of BRITT: REG: F:D:

I noticed that on Colin's Farthing website for the 1860 Farthing, it had listed the OBV E variety where the top bar of the E in REG: was missing.

The Farthing that I have purchased looks to me to be very similar except that it is the bottom bar of the E in REG: that is missing making it appear to read RFG:

I was wondering this was a known variation of the OBV E type or if it is a new variety?

Sadly I do not have access to my scanner this evening but I will endevour to try and upload some images tomorrow.

Any help or information is as always greatly appreciated. :}

Broken or damaged lettering is very very common, especially in the copper series and the first years of the bronze series.

[Colin G.]

As stated broken or damaged lettering is very common, especially in the the first years of the bronze series on farthings, but that being said, it still can help to identify repetitive flaws, and die combinations, so I would definitely be interested in seeing some images.

The Obverse E that you make refernce to is a good example, there are no dies showing progressive stages of wear that got to that point, but I have seen about 5 examples that all have the same serifs missing, and the top bar of the E broken, it's as if the die faults appeared over a very short period, or a very poor quality die was utilised.

Similar examples occur for 1862 & 1865 whereby the legend reads RFG due to the flaws. If nothing else, I can keep record of it so that if any others show up the picture becomes clearer

[RobJ]

Broken or damaged lettering is very very common, especially in the copper series and the first years of the bronze series.

As stated broken or damaged lettering is very common, especially in the the first years of the bronze series on farthings, but that being said, it still can help to identify repetitive flaws, and die combinations, so I would definitely be interested in seeing some images.

The Obverse E that you make refernce to is a good example, there are no dies showing progressive stages of wear that got to that point, but I have seen about 5 examples that all have the same serifs missing, and the top bar of the E broken, it's as if the die faults appeared over a very short period, or a very poor quality die was utilised.

Similar examples occur for 1862 & 1865 whereby the legend reads RFG due to the flaws. If nothing else, I can keep record of it so that if any others show up the picture becomes clearer

Thank you Peckris and Colin for your insight and information.

I have noticed that as well as damage to the E in REG: that I originally mentioned, there is damage to the G in REG: and also to the F in F:D:

I have had a little play with my scanner and its settings this morning and I have enclosed some images for you Colin.

The first is the whole OBV scanned at 600 dpi and the second is a close up of lettering that I have referred to scanned at 2400 dpi.

Hopefully they will be able to assist you further into you research and help with your records.

[RobJ]

The second image.

[Peckris]

The second image.

The damage to the G looks as if it could possibly be post-minting, i.e. during circulation?

[RobJ]

The damage to the G looks as if it could possibly be post-minting, i.e. during circulation?

I'm not sure if I'm honest with you Peckris. It is certainly a possibility that it may have occured in circulation.

I did notice that the A in Victoria is not barred. I don't know if that is due to a die error or perhaps wear from circulation.

[RobJ]

I have been taking a closer look at the A in Victoria that I mentioned not being barred.

Perhaps it is my eyesight - Or more likely my admitted lack of knowledge on the subject, lol - But it looks to me that the A is actually an upside down V.

Or am I being stupid and the style of lettering being used would make an unbarred A look like an upside down V?

[Colin G.]

I have been taking a closer look at the A in Victoria that I mentioned not being barred.

Perhaps it is my eyesight - Or more likely my admitted lack of knowledge on the subject, lol - But it looks to me that the A is actually an upside down V.

Or am I being stupid and the style of lettering being used would make an unbarred A look like an upside down V?

You are not being stupid, but it is definitely a case of the cross bar on the die being filled rather than an inverted V. Still a fascinating coin in my opinion, but I am one a select group of geeks that enjoy this kind of thing

[RobJ]

You are not being stupid, but it is definitely a case of the cross bar on the die being filled rather than an inverted V. Still a fascinating coin in my opinion, but I am one a select group of geeks that enjoy this kind of thing

I see. That would explain it.

May I enquire as to why the die would have been filled?

I think.that it is a nice example. And well worth the 50p that I paid for it. lol

I must admit Colin, I am starting to find that I'm really starting to take a shine to Farthings. I do like HalfPennys and Pennys as well.

Farthings are much overlooked perhaps, but I personally think that that they are fascinating coins.

I recently saw my first 'Young Head' Farthing and I must admit that I was quite taken aback by the detail of the design on a 'Small' coin.

In time you may have a fellow Farthing geek here too. lol

[Peckris]

The damage to the G looks as if it could possibly be post-minting, i.e. during circulation?

I'm not sure if I'm honest with you Peckris. It is certainly a possibility that it may have occured in circulation.

I did notice that the A in Victoria is not barred. I don't know if that is due to a die error or perhaps wear from circulation.

It's not just the G - there is also damage to the linear circle at the same place, and to the field in between the circle and the border teeth, which also don't look as good as their neighbours. It is of course possible that some 'gunk' got onto the die and caused this damage at the time of strike, but this still differentiates the coin from one where there has been deliberate alteration to the die (which then becomes a collectable variety).

On close inspection, the bottom bar of the E in REG is there, but it's faint - an example of a 'filling' rather than 'filled' die.

[RobJ]

It's not just the G - there is also damage to the linear circle at the same place, and to the field in between the circle and the border teeth, which also don't look as good as their neighbours. It is of course possible that some 'gunk' got onto the die and caused this damage at the time of strike, but this still differentiates the coin from one where there has been deliberate alteration to the die (which then becomes a collectable variety).

On close inspection, the bottom bar of the E in REG is there, but it's faint - an example of a 'filling' rather than 'filled' die.

I see what you are saying about the damage in the Linear circle and teeth. There is also evidence of that on the REV.

I'm thinking that it is due to natural wear and general circulation . I'm not sure when it was 'Pulled' from circulation but I do think that it was quite well used before that point.

[RLC35]

Robj,

You are right about the young head farthings, they are really detailed. In my opinion they are the most beautiful of the modern farthings. I have tried to upgrade my YH's at every opportunity, and as a result have a pretty nice collection of them, including the 1844 in EF (showcased on the "About Farthings" website). I am sure you will be rewarded by starting a collection of Young Heads!

[RobJ]

Robj,

You are right about the young head farthings, they are really detailed. In my opinion they are the most beautiful of the modern farthings. I have tried to upgrade my YH's at every opportunity, and as a result have a pretty nice collection of them, including the 1844 in EF (showcased on the "About Farthings" website). I am sure you will be rewarded by starting a collection of Young Heads!

That is a really nice Farthing that you have there Bob.

I'm not sure if it is the design itself or the simplicity of the coin or even both, but I find them most attractive coins.

I think that I will have to keep an eye open on my coin buying expeditions and see what I can find.

[scott]

YH is nice, i prefer the scaling of the halfpennys, but those cost too much.

speaking of halfpennys and odd lettering.

[RobJ]

speaking of halfpennys and odd lettering.

Sorry Scott, I think that it must be my eyesight again. lol Where am I looking for the odd lettering?

[scott]

HALF

unbarred A and top of F missing

[RobJ]

HALF

unbarred A and top of F missing

Yes, of course!

Sorry Scott, I see what you mean now. lol