are there sought after die numbers in the victorian silvers?

[scott]

always wondered this, are there any premiums to be had from die numbers in general or are they all the same?

[ken46]

I cannot honestly answer your question about silver denominations and die number valuations. But as a

collector of sovereign die numbers for almost 30 years I can tell you that there has been a significant

appreciation in price over and above the value of the gold content. Perhaps it is just the fact that

for most of the years between 1863 and 1874 there were only shield back die numbers minted. One has to

also take into consideration the mintage quantities which in some years was very small (1874).

Then there is the issue of I haven't found a new (to me) die number in over two years so I guess I would

pay a priemium if I found one I didn't have.

Ken

[Peckris]

always wondered this, are there any premiums to be had from die numbers in general or are they all the same?

Mostly, I would say "no". The reason being that The Mint introduced die numbers to monitor die wear, so almost by definition there will be a good use of that die. And I suppose the effort required in undertaking a survey of surviving coins with a particular number would be so great as to make it unfeasible. It's an interesting question though - some varieties become spectacular with much less obvious differences than a die number (e.g. bun penny minutiae), so you would think someone would have researched it by now.

[VickySilver]

I can not speak for all, but as an AVID collector of Victorian silver minors I have little added value for die numbers. It just simply not of interest and there has been no complete listing with no doubt many undiscovered combinations. In general I have seen through private sales, auctions, dealer listings, etc. that seem support this notion being widespread.

That having been said, if I have two or more of a particular date and die combination that I will be more enthusiastic at keeping the excess pieces if possessing different die numbers.

[AardHawk]

The reason being that The Mint introduced die numbers to monitor die wear

This is a numismatic myth. Both Coins & Medals and Coin Monthly carried out detailed studies of die numbers during the '60s and '70s before finding the true reason for them had already been provided in an article, 'Registration of Coins' in the July 1866 issue of the Intellectual Observer which I quote as follows. "It is done with a view to identifying the particular die by which each individual piece of money was struck, the particular press at which the latter received its impressions, the day on which it came into existence and the name of the press attendant under whose agency it was borne. Thus if a defective coin, which had escaped the vigilant and scrutinising eye of the examiner at the Mint and passed out into the channels of general circulation, were subsequently discovered - no matter how long after its issue - it would be possible, by reference to Mint records, to establish its identity and to fix the responsibility for its defect upon the unhappy wight who managed the machine which stamped it into being." Who said that Big Brother was a new idea!

[Badger]

Hi, as a collector of Die number of 6d, Shillings and Florins, in my experience I would have to say that there are some more collctable die numbers than others that would bring a higher premium. Being that some major varieties e.g. 1879 Shilling die 13 is the 8 over 6 variety, this would make die 13 more collectable than the other 1879 die numbers as this is the only die number to have this error.

Another example would be the 1865 Florins with the colon after date, which are a lot scarcer than the no colon type, the colons were struck with dies 41 to 51, so I would say these die numbers are more collectable than the others.

There are quite a few more examples of this with the 1878 DRIT Sixpence which is die 6 (there is also a standard BRIT die 6)etc etc.

Just like dates of any coins you get common, scarce ones and rare ones, this goes for die numbers too. If you search for 1879 Shillings with die numbers (which range from 1 to 26), you will notice that dies 1 and 2 are very much more common than the other numbers.

I can't imagine that there are many die number collectors, so die numbers without any of the major varieties mentioned above would generally command the same prices unless it is an unrecorded die/date combination that was needed by most die collectors which then would see increased bidding over a common die/date combination.

Badger

[Peckris]

The reason being that The Mint introduced die numbers to monitor die wear

This is a numismatic myth. Both Coins & Medals and Coin Monthly carried out detailed studies of die numbers during the '60s and '70s before finding the true reason for them had already been provided in an article, 'Registration of Coins' in the July 1866 issue of the Intellectual Observer which I quote as follows. "It is done with a view to identifying the particular die by which each individual piece of money was struck, the particular press at which the latter received its impressions, the day on which it came into existence and the name of the press attendant under whose agency it was borne. Thus if a defective coin, which had escaped the vigilant and scrutinising eye of the examiner at the Mint and passed out into the channels of general circulation, were subsequently discovered - no matter how long after its issue - it would be possible, by reference to Mint records, to establish its identity and to fix the responsibility for its defect upon the unhappy wight who managed the machine which stamped it into being." Who said that Big Brother was a new idea!

Fascinating! I'd never read that before - thanks for reproducing it. Makes you wonder why it happened only during that period - a Mint employee uprising broguht it to an end perhaps? Like the workers who hounded poor Mestrelle's machinery out of the medieval mint.