1699 Sixpence - Forgery

[Ron]

I have a 1699 sixpence, which is in About Very Fine condition, apart from it being covered in black staining on both the obverse and reverse. Shame really, because it looks quite nice apart from that. There is very little wear.

Someone however, has suggested that this is possibly a fake, because it only weighs 2.1 grams. It is quite thin, but has normal diameter, around 20mm.

I appreciate that dimensions can vary a bit due to the manufacturing processes, but the weight does worry me. If it is not very worn, which it isn't, why is it so light? I thought they were supposed to be around 2.8 grams. The edges are still quite milled, so it hasn't been clipped, or filed.

If this is a fake, then why would the manufacturer (faker!?) add staining, or is it perhaps a contemporary forgery, which has become stained over the years?

[Rob]

I have a 1699 sixpence, which is in About Very Fine condition, apart from it being covered in black staining on both the obverse and reverse. Shame really, because it looks quite nice apart from that. There is very little wear.

Someone however, has suggested that this is possibly a fake, because it only weighs 2.1 grams. It is quite thin, but has normal diameter, around 20mm.

I appreciate that dimensions can vary a bit due to the manufacturing processes, but the weight does worry me. If it is not very worn, which it isn't, why is it so light? I thought they were supposed to be around 2.8 grams. The edges are still quite milled, so it hasn't been clipped, or filed.

If this is a fake, then why would the manufacturer (faker!?) add staining, or is it perhaps a contemporary forgery, which has become stained over the years?

Could be made of tin. Based on the relative densities of silver and tin, 2.1g would be about right for the latter.

[Chris Perkins]

I collect forgeries! Can you post a picture and we'll be able to tell you right away if it is or not.

[scottishmoney]

Like Chris says, there are a hardcore group of collectors like even myself that like the contemporary forgeries a lot more than the genuine mint articles. Think about it, for instance I have a counterfeit coin from the reign of Mary Queen of Scots, you have to realise that the penalty even for possession of such a thing, let alone passing it unwittingly and most of all making it in the first place was simple - death. It was not a lot different in England either. Even coppers were counterfeited, but usually not given the stiffest penalty, but silver was an automatic ticket to the gallows or whatever else at hand.

For that reason counterfeits, and because of the great re-coinages in Britain at the beginning of the 18th century are now quite scarce.

They got much more common after the 1780's, better equipment, better economy, great coin shortage and more lax interpretation of the law.

[Ron]

I collect forgeries! Can you post a picture and we'll be able to tell you right away if it is or not.

I'm impressed that you can tell via a photo. Here are a couple of photos. Unfortunately, I can't get good images due to the dark staining on the coin, which contrasts with the much lighter areas.

As I said before, the edge milling is good and outwardly, to my eyes anyway, looks real apart from the weight. I'd be interested in your opinion though.

Thanks.

I collect forgeries! Can you post a picture and we'll be able to tell you right away if it is or not.

I'm impressed that you can tell via a photo. Here are a couple of photos. Unfortunately, I can't get good images due to the dark staining on the coin, which contrasts with the much lighter areas.

As I said before, the edge milling is good and outwardly, to my eyes anyway, looks real apart from the weight. I'd be interested in your opinion though.

Thanks.

I'm replying to myself here, but ...

I tried to attach 2 pictures by browsing to the picture, then clicking the 'Add This Attachment' button. I did this twice, once for each side of the coin, but nothing has been attached.

[Ron]

I collect forgeries! Can you post a picture and we'll be able to tell you right away if it is or not.

I'm impressed that you can tell via a photo. Here are a couple of photos. Unfortunately, I can't get good images due to the dark staining on the coin, which contrasts with the much lighter areas.

As I said before, the edge milling is good and outwardly, to my eyes anyway, looks real apart from the weight. I'd be interested in your opinion though.

Thanks.

I collect forgeries! Can you post a picture and we'll be able to tell you right away if it is or not.

I'm impressed that you can tell via a photo. Here are a couple of photos. Unfortunately, I can't get good images due to the dark staining on the coin, which contrasts with the much lighter areas.

As I said before, the edge milling is good and outwardly, to my eyes anyway, looks real apart from the weight. I'd be interested in your opinion though.

Thanks.

I'm replying to myself here, but ...

I tried to attach 2 pictures by browsing to the picture, then clicking the 'Add This Attachment' button. I did this twice, once for each side of the coin, but nothing has been attached.

I just noticed the following when I try to attach images :-

THE FOLLOWING ERROR(S) WERE FOUND

The requested file upload failed because suitable permissions have not been enabled on the 'uploads' directory. Please contact the board administrator and inform them of this error.

[scottishmoney]

Just PM the images to me, I will host and post.

[Ron]

I collect forgeries! Can you post a picture and we'll be able to tell you right away if it is or not.

Try this then - http://www.watfordcoins.co.uk/1699SixPence.htm

Thanks in advance.

[Chris Perkins]

That's a fake, instantly recognisable from the awful pitted surfaces. The coin wasn't struck it was cast.

I'll give you a fiver for it plus your postage costs.

[TomGoodheart]

Most forgeries have some give-away sign if you know what to look for. Even modern counterfeit £1 coins are pretty easy to spot. It's just most people wouldn't have given them a second glance or, if they had suspicions, would have passed them on as quickly as possible!

They've been around for as long as there's been money so it's an interesting area! If Chris' offer doesn't attract you, perhaps something you could get into yourself!

.