Queen Vic Copper Farthings

[Gary]

I undersand that it is thought that the Obv of QV copper farthings were struck from used Sovereign Dies.

If this is so, how does this effect the Grading of these coins? , then even true Unc with lustre examples would show signs of wear and in theory would have a true grade of only EF and worst case scenario, nEF!

I have included a photo of an 1839 Farthing and would be interested to see what members think as to the grade of this coin.

The milky patches are due to the coin holder.

Cheers, Gary

[Rob]

I undersand that it is thought that the Obv of QV copper farthings were struck from used Sovereign Dies.

If this is so, how does this effect the Grading of these coins? , then even true Unc with lustre examples would show signs of wear and in theory would have a true grade of only EF and worst case scenario, nEF!

I have included a photo of an 1839 Farthing and would be interested to see what members think as to the grade of this coin.

The milky patches are due to the coin holder.

Cheers, Gary

The rims have contact marks and the design show signs of circulation particularly the obverse, so therefore this could not be graded as UNC even if from worn dies. Personally I would grade this as approaching EF but not quite there with the reverse a bit better so could justify an EF.

The problem with worn dies is when to assign lower than normal relief in the design to wear due to circulation or not. If you have worn dies, they are old by definition which may have flaws. A razor sharp flaw over the top of a bun or the ear for example has clearly had no circulation and so could legitimately be called UNC. In the absence of an unambiguous feature, you must assume the flat spots are due to wear and grade accordingly. The dies may have blockage of the recessed parts of the die as well as wear to the high points. Don't forget that low relief to the normal high points equates to blocked dies and worn dies would show signs such as earplugs or a not very incuse WW for example.

Another good example of this is the lions' faces on shield reverses. These are frequently filled in/worn on the face detail and a much better indicator of wear is the degree of flattening on the harp breast. These are conical, rarely show signs of infilling and wear flat in line with the amount of circulation

[Peter]

A few unfortunate dings but still a nice NEF.

I personally would prefer the coin in GVF with no dings.

[Rob]

I prefer it in UNC with good lustre or ideally full blazing lustre but sadly mine has only a bare trace

[Peter]

Keep your blazing BU's an Unc to me is all I want.

I've got a few BU blazers but I prefer the ones in my wardrobe.

[Gary]

Thanks guy`s.

I thought I might have been a little harsh when grading of these coins. My grade for this coin is nEF which seems to be the general opinion.

[krasnaya_vityaz]

No matter what you care to grade that 1839, it is an attractive piece with nice colouring.