Is this or isn't it.

[Gary D]

[Chris Perkins]

That's a normal proof Gary, the kind that would have been in a 1937 Proof set. All of those had frosted devices, the 'frosted' VIP coin was frosted all over, to look like the one on ebay recently.

[Guest Guest]

That's a normal proof Gary, the kind that would have been in a 1937 Proof set. All of those had frosted devices, the 'frosted' VIP coin was frosted all over, to look like the one on ebay recently.

Are you thinking of te Matt 1951 crown that went for £2000 a few days ago.

[Chris Perkins]

That's the one. Supposedly, that's what frosted coins look like.

[Rob]

This is a VIP shilling obverse but all the other denominations are similarly designed. The head only is frosted by sandblasting, the fields are mirrors. It would be reasonable to assume that the crown is as the rest.

[Rob]

And I should add that the ease with which you can sandblast a coin is why you should be sceptical about the extremely rare matt proofs which were made by the mint for photographic purposes, but whose output has been surpassed by others many times over judging by the number that appear on eBay.

[Peter]

A minefield....and here I was thinking coins were a subject I could never get diddled at.....lucky I don't collect these types although I'm extremly concerned with ancients(Bulgarian,Chinese copies et all)

[Gary D]

I had a chat with Dan at Lockdales today who suggested taking it along for him to have a look. The seller is offering to take it back but I obviously hope it turns out to be genuin.

[Chris Perkins]

I'd be very surprised if it was Gary. Or at least if it is, it's totally indistinguishable from a £35 standard proof coin!

[Rob]

I had a chat with Dan at Lockdales today who suggested taking it along for him to have a look. The seller is offering to take it back but I obviously hope it turns out to be genuin.

Is the one pictured supposed to be a VIP proof?

[Jamesred]

What about this on ebay just now??

8351328024

James

[Chris Perkins]

I've bought from that seller before, and I wasn't over the moon. All I'll say is, that she seems to have an endless supply of Spink cards, and I wouldn't take the chance personally.

[Rob]

Pictures are always too dark. Everything is practically mint state irrespective of grade and any technical questions asked in the past have always elicited the reply "How can you tell?"

[Guest Guest]

Overgrades in my opinion.....unless she is a crap photographer.

[Coppers]

I've bought from that seller before, and I wasn't over the moon. All I'll say is, that she seems to have an endless supply of Spink cards, and I wouldn't take the chance personally.

I've heard similar comments regarding this seller from other reliable sources as well.

[Rob]

6 months ago I had no choice because she bought one of the Weyl patterns off Colin Cooke while it was listed when I had a last minute bid lined up. Cost me £75 more than it should have done when she relisted it for a higher price, but when you know its probably unique and not in the metal as described you have to bite your lip and pay up, blacklisted or not. The description was copied verbatim. Actually, that also applied to Nicholson, Colin Cooke, Glendinings and the vendor at the sale on 15/12/1993 so perhaps that's a bit unfair. For the record, it was in tin and not aluminium. This metal is unrecorded for the Weyl patterns.

[Gary D]

Met Dan today at Lockdales in Cambridge. He brought along one he had bought the day before. Mine is the real thing but his you needed sun glasses to look at it.

[Chris Perkins]

I just need to get this cleared up....

Yours is a Matte/VIP proof worth £400, not a normal proof worth £40?

It looks like a normal proof to me.

[Rob]

I just need to get this cleared up....

Yours is a Matte/VIP proof worth £400, not a normal proof worth £40?

It looks like a normal proof to me.

Me too. The matt should not be reflective. The picture I posted showing the frosted bust has zero relectivity. If the bust is reflective it has been cleaned or it isn't a VIP at all.

[Guest Guest]

No not matt a VIP, its like a proof on steriods. The ground is mirrored but everything is so crisp you could shave with it.

[Chris Perkins]

Yes, it's clearly a proof. Very distinguishable from a normal one.

[Rob]

No not matt a VIP, its like a proof on steriods. The ground is mirrored but everything is so crisp you could shave with it.

So it should be. All of my VIP proofs have fields where I can see what's happening in the garden in the reflection. However, some of the set pieces are in a similar state of preservation, so this alone cannot determine whether a piece is a VIP or not. The question I still have is - Is the bust sandblasted to give a frosted appearance? The proof crowns were issued as part of a set (crown down to farthings) and although the bust has some opaqueness, it doesn't look to be to the same degree as a VIP proof which has an almost velvet like appearance. The surface of the head detail on a VIP doesn't even look vaguely polished. All of the proof sets for public consumption as issued do not have this. The image in your picture doesn't show this subdued image and still looks bright enough to be reflective to some extent - although clearly a proof.

[Coppers]

This may be somewhat off-topic, but I have heard that a similar problem exists in the area of 19th century Maundy and currency issues whereas some Maundy issues are being offered as their rarer currency counterparts.

[Guest Guest]

The head is sand blasted. This example is going back as it looks as though its been dipped or something like it. There are some very faint brown staining on the crest as thought some copper is showing (only 50% silver). The coin is quite dull when put next to a perfect example. It is the real thing though.

[Rob]

Sending it back is the right decision if it appears to have been dipped. An abused proof will never be collectable when there are perfect or nearly so examples about.