The Portland Collection

[Nick]

For those interested in threepences, groats and Maundy sets, Baldwin's of St James's are currently auctioning the Portland Collection.  Some lovely coins, mostly NGC graded.

[VickySilver]

Uggh, don't rat us low life out! Well there are a couple I will likely fight pretty hard for (whatever that means in today's inflationary times). I really like the 6d-florin silver a bit better, but there are a few I am obligated to go after.

[Peckris 2]

I'm not very impressed by their identifying Plautilla (wife of Roman emperor Caracalla) as "Plantilla". It's not even a typo as that's the name consistently used.

[VickySilver]

True.  Maybe that will drive some bidders away?

[Peckris 2]

2 hours ago, VickySilver said:

True.  Maybe that will drive some bidders away?

I doubt it

[VickySilver]

As I watched the sale this morning, I must say I did get blown out on the two lots I wanted, the "1551" 3d and the 1853 proof groat with later bust that with commissions each went for well above 3k.

I ended up getting just the 1853 3d.

I noticed that with the blown up pictures of lots that IMO quite a number of the 1840s-1860s 3e (not all) were what has been termed as satin Maundy issue and not actual currency 3d.

[Menger]

It was a fantastic sale. I managed to get several in the auction and then picked up several more (at a higher price) on eBay.  Not optimal. I was interested to see that the 1887 YH4 proof 3d (graded MS) was reauctioned in September.  I will be looking out for other pieces from the collection’, especially the threehalfpences and some of the Maundy. Very nice pieces all around. 

[VickySilver]

I am still bothered by the designation of those 3d bits, esp. the 1840s and the "proofs" that IMO were not and was agreed to by none other that Steve Hill.

[Menger]

Were there any in particular you were concerned about?
 

I noted that the 1847 3d had the same die crack through the 3 on the reverse as the Maundy 3d in the same collection. The 1848 3d seemed good condition for a currency but it did not have the same regular colons that seem to be a feature of many Maundy 3d of that year.  

I bought bought 3ds: 1854, 1855 and 1858 - I am certain the first two are currency. The 1858 is a little refined but it does have the same look as a 1861 young head one that I own and know to be currency (because the Maundy had YH2 that year, I believe).  

[VickySilver]

Yes, the 1847 and 1848 especially IMO were NOT currency. I have posted several times about the variances in Maundy strikes and also have had lengthy conversations with none other than Steve Hill who agrees. I do not recall the others. Also, the RM seems to have been fast and furious with dies in those days (1840s through at least 1860s) so there was mix and match, satin finish, PL finish, some dies with "proofy" characteristics, overstruck die lettering/legend issues, etc....

[Menger]

I will try to track down your discussions on the topic of Maundy v currency 3d. As a collector of both Maundy and 3d and 4d it is a topic dear to my heart.  The reason I moved to focus on Maundy sets was precisely the difficulty in identifying true currency 1840s and 1850s 3d, especially for the key dates. 

I had thought the irregular colons in the 1848 3d in the Portland collection may have distinguished it from the more regular colons I have seen in Maundy sets that year - but it seems you are less convinced. 

At least 4d don’t suffer the same affliction.