1709 E no star Queen Anne Shilling ?

[Paddy]

Anyone able to give me more on this shilling? It appears to be a 1709 E no star shilling dated 1709, BUT the E seems to be in an unusual place, and the bust appears to be English third bust instead of the Edinburgh bust. Is this right, or is it some cobbled together fake? (Presumably an English 1709 third bust Shilling with an E floated on in the wrong place...?)

 

[Stuntman]

I think it looks OK, and I think the 1709 E 3rd bust is a known type, but more knowledgeable folk will doubtless be along shortly.  I have looked for pictures and looked through the LCA sold listings but can't see another one! 

[Rob]

I'm smelling a rat.

Why does the E show up with a different tone to the rest of it on my screen? Scratches to the right of the E below the truncation? The lines emanating from the left side of the shields top and bottom is sometimes seen with a cast. The flan looks pitted. The letters look a bit 'modern' for my liking, but I'm not sure if that is wishful thinking, not having done a survey of  the punches used on Anne's coinage.

I wouldn't be surprised if the E was added later. 1709E is only recorded by Prevost et al with an Edinburgh bust and local dies with narrow shields reverse, the star having filled on the die. The bust punch is also different around the chin area to the other 1709 shillings I have images of.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Rob

[Paddy]

9 hours ago, Rob said:

I'm smelling a rat.

Why does the E show up with a different tone to the rest of it on my screen? Scratches to the right of the E below the truncation? The lines emanating from the left side of the shields top and bottom is sometimes seen with a cast. The flan looks pitted. The letters look a bit 'modern' for my liking, but I'm not sure if that is wishful thinking, not having done a survey of  the punches used on Anne's coinage.

I wouldn't be surprised if the E was added later. 1709E is only recorded by Prevost et al with an Edinburgh bust and local dies with narrow shields reverse, the star having filled on the die. The bust punch is also different around the chin area to the other 1709 shillings I have images of.

Thanks Rob, I have always smelled a bit of a rat about this coin, but I am more inclined to the E having been pasted onto an English coin than a complete fake. The E is too far to the left compared to the normal Edinburgh coins, but I wasn't sure if this would have been correct for an E no star. Now the news that the no star was due (probably) to a filled die means the location is definitely wrong.

Still, I only paid English 1709 price for it more than 10 years ago, so I will keep it as a curio.