the royal mint, a public service or a licence to print money?

[headsortails]

Who dose the royal mint now serve? Is it the realm or has it now a dule role in turning out coins for collectors whist oiling the hands of the discerning middle men?

The west minster collection/connection?

[craigy]

dunno but its been getting silly with the amount of coins being issued, i even suggested to them a long time before the queens 90th to do a jubilee issue of the standard defintives but they didnt listen,   what is the westminster connection with them, 

[headsortails]

Well i would state if private individuals have access to coins via royal mint where the common peaple of britian don't and are able to sell them on at a margin, its a clear do know.

 

[Peckris]

They are a government owned company with a "commitment to making a financial return to the government", which means you and I are paying for the minting and selling of all this dross.

[headsortails]

23 hours ago, Peckris said:

They are a government owned company with a "commitment to making a financial return to the government", which means you and I are paying for the minting and selling of all this dross.

How is handing a monopoly to a private firm enabeling them to make a profit,so bypassing a profit the mint could make directly helping the return to the treasury and so the british people?

[Rob]

26 minutes ago, headsortails said:

How is handing a monopoly to a private firm enabeling them to make a profit,so bypassing a profit the mint could make directly helping the return to the treasury and so the british people?

If it is owned by the government, then any dividends pass to the treasury.

[headsortails]

Well if you're asking if? The answers is its a private company operated for profithttp://www.westminstercollection.com/information/about-us.aspx

Edited September 8, 2017 by headsortails

[Rob]

38 minutes ago, headsortails said:

Well if you're asking if? The answers is its a private company operated for profithttp://www.westminstercollection.com/information/about-us.aspx

Westminster isn't the Royal Mint. The former is a private company which is a distributor and also makes its own products which are usually only worth their intrinsic value in the secondary market. The Royal Mint is a company engaged in the manufacture of coins under contract for this country and many others. Logically it is a separate legal entity to the government which would otherwise leave the country potentially liable for unlimited claims if someone sued them. It is the usual way of limiting liability, so I'm not sure what the problem is here.

[headsortails]

2 hours ago, Rob said:

Westminster isn't the Royal Mint. The former is a private company which is a distributor and also makes its own products which are usually only worth their intrinsic value in the secondary market. The Royal Mint is a company engaged in the manufacture of coins under contract for this country and many others. Logically it is a separate legal entity to the government which would otherwise leave the country potentially liable for unlimited claims if someone sued them. It is the usual way of limiting liability, so I'm not sure what the problem is here.

The problem as i see it is that the royal mint is a public funded entity that is charged with producing coins for britain in the main.

Why is it selling coins to private retailers allowing them to make profit when they could be retailing the coins themselves?

Why dose the Westminster mint have access to coins joe public dosn't?

After all joe public funds the royal mint.

 

[Rob]

They do sell them themselves also. It is about reaching the widest audience. Why do some people insist on shopping at ASDA when there is a Sainsburys closer? The shopping basket is the same wherever they shop, so it is down to the individual's choice to use one shop over the other.

The Royal Mint is a stand alone operation that made (if I remember correctly) £11m profit the last time I looked, implying your taxes have not been used to support the mint.

[scott]

De la rue has a license to print money

 

Royal mint are getting to the point where they sell overpriced stuff now,they are selling a 1970 set on their site for... £42

[headsortails]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

They do sell them themselves also. It is about reaching the widest audience. Why do some people insist on shopping at ASDA when there is a Sainsburys closer? The shopping basket is the same wherever they shop, so it is down to the individual's choice to use one shop over the other.

The Royal Mint is a stand alone operation that made (if I remember correctly) £11m profit the last time I looked, implying your taxes have not been used to support the mint.

Yes rob the mint dose sell the same coins and they produce them.

Explan to me how a second party,A private entity can sell coins cheaper as they do than the main dealer, that a dealer who is publicly owed and so who ultimately is accountable to A british public that it blatantly bypasses.

Explanation please.

[headsortails]

2 hours ago, Rob said:

They do sell them themselves also. It is about reaching the widest audience. Why do some people insist on shopping at ASDA when there is a Sainsburys closer? The shopping basket is the same wherever they shop, so it is down to the individual's choice to use one shop over the other.

The Royal Mint is a stand alone operation that made (if I remember correctly) £11m profit the last time I looked, implying your taxes have not been used to support the mint.

Yes rob the mint dose sell the same coins and they produce them.

Explan to me how a second party,A private entity can sell coins cheaper as they do than the main dealer, thats a dealer who is publicly owed and so who is ultimately is accountable to A british public that it blatantly bypasses.

Explanation please.

Edited September 8, 2017 by headsortails

[Rob]

Unless a contract is in place to price things uniformly across all outlets, the discount given to distributors does not have to be covered. It is no different to Spink selling their tome at £30, whereas coin dealers will be given a discount for bulk purchases i.e. you have to buy them by the box. They then price according to what they think they can get to move them on quickly. Personally, I sold the last issue for £25, but was also prepared to split them into decimal and predecimal if required, with the combined price being somewhere between 25 and 30. This is exactly the same situation and normal business in the commercial world. If everything was priced the same, then the populace would then moan that everything was operating as a cartel. Can't win.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Rob

[headsortails]

22 minutes ago, Rob said:

Unless a contract is in place to price things uniformly across all outlets, the discount given to distributors does not have to be covered. It is no different to Spink selling their tome at £30, whereas coin dealers will be given a discount for bulk purchases i.e. you have to buy them by the box. They then price according to what they think they can get to move them on quickly. Personally, I sold the last issue for £25, but was also prepared to split them into decimal and predecimal if required, with the combined price being somewhere between 25 and 30. This is exactly the same situation and normal business in the commercial world. If everything was priced the same, then the populace would then moan that everything was operating as a cartel. Can't win.

Is spink in the public domain? The royal mint is publicly owned with a sole purpose to serve the public and should not to produce coins that oil the hands of private companies.

What gives the royal mint the right to give private entitys access to coins denied to the public?

What right has the royal mint a public servant to hand private companys the chance to coin in making a profit from coins sold to the public produced by a public entity?

[Rob]

It does serve the public. It made a profit last year, the proceeds of which went to the treasury. The fact that it has an arrangement with a private company is neither here nor there. Sure it is on the sales ledger rather than the purchase ledger, but either way a private company is benefiting from government activity by providing their services for a slice of the cake. That's the way the world operates.

Personally I would like them to stop making so many commemoratives because they will flood the market and kill it just as philately has suffered. But that would mean less income for the mint. You can't have it both ways. Either they make profits in whatever way they can, or they don't produce them in the first place and the cost of coining this country's currency is covered by the taxpayer. Commercial activity is not an exact science, but one theme runs throughout all businesses - the cost of tooling is fixed and a sunk cost. The first priority is to cover that expenditure in whatever way you can. Time is money, so you need to get the goods to the end user in the fastest possible time with the greatest market coverage. Profits are a trailing bonus once capex has been covered - economies of scale and all that.

In this case Westminster obviously have a large customer base that the Royal Mint can exploit - for a fee.

[headsortails]

2 minutes ago, Rob said:

It does serve the public. It made a profit last year, the proceeds of which went to the treasury. The fact that it has an arrangement with a private company is neither here nor there. Sure it is on the sales ledger rather than the purchase ledger, but either way a private company is benefiting from government activity by providing their services for a slice of the cake. That's the way the world operates.

Personally I would like them to stop making so many commemoratives because they will flood the market and kill it just as philately has suffered. But that would mean less income for the mint. You can't have it both ways. Either they make profits in whatever way they can, or they don't produce them in the first place and the cost of coining this country's currency is covered by the taxpayer. Commercial activity is not an exact science, but one theme runs throughout all businesses - the cost of tooling is fixed and a sunk cost. The first priority is to cover that expenditure in whatever way you can. Time is money, so you need to get the goods to the end user in the fastest possible time with the greatest market coverage. Profits are a trailing bonus once capex has been covered - economies of scale and all that.

In this case Westminster obviously have a large customer base that the Royal Mint can exploit - for a fee.

Eloquent, but the profits of private entitys go into private hands only the tax revenues if there are any go home to the public domain,thats where the profits where generated and belong.

[headsortails]

Why dose joe public have to pay £26 for a 2016 royal sheild of arms £1 coin now only available from the Westminster mint when none and i repeat none were made avalible to the public via circulation?

Thats a pound coin,face value  £1 now worth £26 if you have the right connections.

Answers not conjecture please!

[Rob]

Using third parties also spreads the risk. What happens when the mint takes everything under its control? Who covers the cost of a bad commercial judgement when they make 100K and only sell a few thousand pieces? Unsurprisingly, it is you and me. By selling in bulk to third parties, the Mint's manufacturing costs are recouped much quicker than if they had to stockpile and then sell enough to cover expenditure. Having moved on ten thousand pieces and received payment, that money can be put to good use. Economies work best when the velocity of money is high. The shorter the time between expenditure and recovery, the quicker you can develop the next product.

I'm sorry, but you are living in an ideal world where everything is under state control, commercial profits are banned and we all live thanks to the benevolence of our political masters. Many people in this country earn money on the back of government activity, and yes, they profit from it.

[headsortails]

3 minutes ago, Rob said:

Using third parties also spreads the risk. What happens when the mint takes everything under its control? Who covers the cost of a bad commercial judgement when they make 100K and only sell a few thousand pieces? Unsurprisingly, it is you and me. By selling in bulk to third parties, the Mint's manufacturing costs are recouped much quicker than if they had to stockpile and then sell enough to cover expenditure. Having moved on ten thousand pieces and received payment, that money can be put to good use. Economies work best when the velocity of money is high. The shorter the time between expenditure and recovery, the quicker you can develop the next product.

I'm sorry, but you are living in an ideal world where everything is under state control, commercial profits are banned and we all live thanks to the benevolence of our political masters. Many people in this country earn money on the back of government activity, and yes, they profit from it.

Rob,third party intervention is most relevant regarding my initial qwestion as to why thrid partys are allowed to take private profit form public funds.

[argentumandcoins]

9 minutes ago, Rob said:

Using third parties also spreads the risk. What happens when the mint takes everything under its control? Who covers the cost of a bad commercial judgement when they make 100K and only sell a few thousand pieces? Unsurprisingly, it is you and me. By selling in bulk to third parties, the Mint's manufacturing costs are recouped much quicker than if they had to stockpile and then sell enough to cover expenditure. Having moved on ten thousand pieces and received payment, that money can be put to good use. Economies work best when the velocity of money is high. The shorter the time between expenditure and recovery, the quicker you can develop the next product.

I'm sorry, but you are living in an ideal world where everything is under state control, commercial profits are banned and we all live thanks to the benevolence of our political masters. Many people in this country earn money on the back of government activity, and yes, they profit from it.

Alternatively known as Jezzavision.....

[headsortails]

 Im sorry but im clearly living in a world where by a pound can be sold for £26 and then sold third party through a private company thats makes clear profit from the people who both produce the coihttp://www.westminstercollection.com/information/about-us.aspxn and had to pay profit to vendor.

Is that not correct?

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by headsortails

[Rob]

Obviously the numbers are hypothetical, but if the mint sells a pound (that costs say £3 to produce) to a company such as Westminster for example at £26/unit, then the mint has made £23 profit. Job done and the Mint has no further input. If Westminster then offer them on at say £35, then they will make £9 gross profit if and when they sell. If the mint is selling them at £40 to the public then they are making £37 profit per unit, but would receive delayed gratification dependant on how long it would take to cover their costs, having foregone the opportunity to quickly offset manufacturing costs by selling them in bulk to the coin trade. At no point is the third party selling them back to the Royal Mint to make a profit. The profit comes from the retail customer in all cases. It is no different to any other commercial supply chain. It is why you have showrooms and don't communicate directly with the manufacturer in most instances.

This discussion is going round in circles and getting nowhere.

[headsortails]

Where can i by a a 2016 royal sheild of arms pound coin from? Not available from the royal mint,i know ill try try rhe Westminster mint,why? Is it for profit or is it blate

tet  corruption?

O, Obviously the figure  £1and £26 is hypothetical unless one as access to the difference that presides between, i make it £24 quid but who knows for sure.

[headsortails]

25 minutes ago, Rob said:

Obviously the numbers are hypothetical, but if the mint sells a pound (that costs say £3 to produce) to a company such as Westminster for example at £26/unit, then the mint has made £23 profit. Job done and the Mint has no further input. If Westminster then offer them on at say £35, then they will make £9 gross profit if and when they sell. If the mint is selling them at £40 to the public then they are making £37 profit per unit, but would receive delayed gratification dependant on how long it would take to cover their costs, having foregone the opportunity to quickly offset manufacturing costs by selling them in bulk to the coin trade. At no point is the third party selling them back to the Royal Mint to make a profit. The profit comes from the retail customer in all cases. It is no different to any other commercial supply chain. It is why you have showrooms and don't communicate directly with the manufacturer in most instances.

This discussion is going round in circles and getting nowhere.

Profits don't come from no where, do they? The point of the post is to point that out.

That is to who is makeing the profit of the back of who?