Need help with a Half Penny issue

[Halfcent]

Hi all. I'm Geoff Halfpenny (yes, that is my real name), a new guy here. As you might guess, I collect...   Half pennies! I have recently been doing some identification of my set using Michael Freemans book. I have run into a problem that I could use some help with.

 

I am presently identifying my 1958 Half Penny coins. Freeman has 3 (not including the proof), numbers 479 (die 3E), 480 (3F), and 481 (3G). The three reverse dies are the obvious differences. From Freeman's book, he describes Reverse F and G as follows:

 

Reverse F (1958,1963) Similar to reverse E, with long border teeth, but the rim is slightly narrower, and the width of the ship at the widest point is 21.2 mm. The lines depicting rigging are slightly thicker.

 

Reverse G (1958-59) Similar to F, but with slightly thicker rim and shorter border teeth - the length of each border tooth is slightly less than the width of the rim, whereas on reverse F, it is slightly greater. The width of the ship is the same - 21.2 mm.

 

From this description, the only way to tell these two dies apart is the tooth and border features. Freeman pictures a 1963 Half Penny as his example of die F. I also have that coin, and here is where I ran into my problem. The problem is in this part of the description:

the length of each border tooth is slightly less than the width of the rim, whereas on reverse F, it is slightly greater.

What I did was take a close-up picture of my 1963 border in order to have a study picture from which to identify my 1958 coins. Here's that picture:

Anyone with a ruler can check and see that the teeth are shorter than the width of the rim. It's not much, but it is shorter. That seems to contradict Freeman's statement that the teeth should be longer.

 

The question then, obviously, is Freeman incorrect? 

 

Thanks for the help!

Edited April 21, 2017 by Halfcent

[PWA 1967]

Sorry i would not have a clue but hopefully someone will help you as always good to see an interesting thread.

Pete.

[terrysoldpennies]

22 hours ago, Halfcent said:

Hi all. I'm Geoff Halfpenny (yes, that is my real name), a new guy here. As you might guess, I collect...   Half pennies! I have recently been doing some identification of my set using Michael Freemans book. I have run into a problem that I could use some help with.

 

I am presently identifying my 1958 Half Penny coins. Freeman has 3 (not including the proof), numbers 479 (die 3E), 480 (3F), and 481 (3G). The three reverse dies are the obvious differences. From Freeman's book, he describes Reverse F and G as follows:

 

Reverse F (1958,1963) Similar to reverse E, with long border teeth, but the rim is slightly narrower, and the width of the ship at the widest point is 21.2 mm. The lines depicting rigging are slightly thicker.

 

Reverse G (1958-59) Similar to F, but with slightly thicker rim and shorter border teeth - the length of each border tooth is slightly less than the width of the rim, whereas on reverse F, it is slightly greater. The width of the ship is the same - 21.2 mm.

 

From this description, the only way to tell these two dies apart is the tooth and border features. Freeman pictures a 1963 Half Penny as his example of die F. I also have that coin, and here is where I ran into my problem. The problem is in this part of the description:

the length of each border tooth is slightly less than the width of the rim, whereas on reverse F, it is slightly greater.

What I did was take a close-up picture of my 1963 border in order to have a study picture from which to identify my 1958 coins. Here's that picture:

Anyone with a ruler can check and see that the teeth are shorter than the width of the rim. It's not much, but it is shorter. That seems to contradict Freeman's statement that the teeth should be longer.

 

The question then, obviously, is Freeman incorrect? 

 

Thanks for the help!

Hi Geoff. We have discussed this before on the forum . look in search = [1958 half penny variations]  23rd Jun 2016. all of the broad rim coins I have found all have longer teeth, and if I my add, that I have found a total of four differing types, so yours being a broad rim short tooth type would make it five types . The other consideration is , are you certain your coin is the widest rim type .   I trust that makes it as clear as mud.   See the post and compare yours with them.   Terry

[Halfcent]

I'll look at thread momentarily. To clarify, the picture I posted is of a 1963. I was going to use it to identify my 1958's. When you mention "broad rim coins", are you talking only about 1958 varieties, or all the ship reverse varieties?

 

Have just read the other thread. Interesting. It would appear there is some discrepancy between Freeman and the actual available varieties. It will make the collection of this year more fun. This picture was the most interesting to me:

 

The teeth actually "cut" into the rim. Haven't seen that before.

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Halfcent

[terrysoldpennies]

18 minutes ago, Halfcent said:

I'll look at thread momentarily. To clarify, the picture I posted is of a 1963. I was going to use it to identify my 1958's. When you mention "broad rim coins", are you talking only about 1958 varieties, or all the ship reverse varieties?

 

Have just read the other thread. Interesting. It would appear there is some discrepancy between Freeman and the actual available varieties. It will make the collection of this year more fun.

 

No , only the 1958 broad rim coins.  Pic below shows the 1957 and 59 along side the 1958s