1934 Wreath Crown Fake or Genuine

[1934 Wreath Crown]

Hi. I'm new to this site. I had purchase this 1934 Crown a while back from a reputable auction house. However, more recently someone said it was probably a fake. It has been certified, graded and slabbed by NGC. Any help or opinions are welcome.

I will upload the reverse separately.

[1934 Wreath Crown]

Reverse

[Nordle11]

Hi and welcome.

It would seem strange if it has been certified by a grading company (although they do make mistakes sometimes) and put up for sale by a reputable auction house. Did this 'someone' give any indication why it's 'probably' fake?

[1934 Wreath Crown]

3 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Hi and welcome.

It would seems strange if it has been certified by a grading company (although they do make mistakes sometimes) and put up for sale by a reputable auction house. Did this 'someone' give any indication why it's 'probably' fake?

Hi Nordle11 and thanks for the welcome. He said there were 'casting' signs which I cannot for the life of me see!!! Said that it had many signs it was a fake and claimed to be the authority on 1930's crowns.

I will copy some of his comments below:

" Please look at the pictures magnified up and you should see exactly what I am saying. I obviously do not have the coin in hand, but there are other "damning" attributes such as the G5 hair detail, and the handiwork around the ears - just not right.
I know the series perhaps fairly well, as I have collected late milled British for over 25 years and well familiar with patterns, OMS, VIP Record proofs (incidentally these are misattributed by the American TPGs quite frequently, or at least with respect to their appearance). This would not be typical wear, and a highly unusual appearance for true 1934s as I look at virtually all specimens coming to market on major dealer listings and auctions; it does have the look of some of the spurious bits. "

[1934 Wreath Crown]

BTW his opinion is based only on the scans and although many other members on that forum thought it was genuine and he was mistaken, he was adamant. Should I just ignore his opinions from now on :)???

[Nordle11]

Sounds like he certainly has a good grasp of this series! I'm not too sure about casting signs but the obverse wear is a little bit strange. Help will be on it's way soon, but in the form of opinions just as this guy has given.

Never ignore anyone's opinons though! Perhaps it's the scans, but perhaps he's right...

[Nordle11]

I found the thread you originally posted in, I notice the guy you're talking about recommended us.
Wonder who he is on here?

He did suggest a name in the field to contact, if you want peace of mind maybe get in touch with him too?

[azda]

Hi, there, have you firstly checked the UIN number against the grading companys to see if its the same coin? By same coin, i mean the exact same as what you see in the holder, the Chinese are also now faking slabs

[Nordle11]

I thought that it was just PCGS ones they were fake slabbing? But worth a check..

[1934 Wreath Crown]

I did check and yes it looks like the same coin. Their photo has a lot of glare on it but you can see the wear on the high points as in my coin. Quite frankly I think we are getting more and more paranoid because of the higher quality replicas and faking of holders.

I had purchased some uncertified coins on eBay and could easily see that they were cast items and not minted coins. Those purchases were reversed. But to me this looks like the real thing.

[1934 Wreath Crown]

The person he has suggested is from another auction company. But this coin was also purchased from Heritage and they do a thorough check and sometimes even note description errors made by TPG companies. I just cannot see them overlooking such a crucial key date coin.

[azda]

5 minutes ago, 1934 Wreath Crown said:

I did check and yes it looks like the same coin. Their photo has a lot of glare on it but you can see the wear on the high points as in my coin. Quite frankly I think we are getting more and more paranoid because of the higher quality replicas and faking of holders.

I had purchased some uncertified coins on eBay and could easily see that they were cast items and not minted coins. Those purchases were reversed. But to me this looks like the real thing.

Which auction house was it bought from, can you all tell us the UIN

Edited May 19, 2016 by azda

[1934 Wreath Crown]

Heritage

[azda]

1 minute ago, 1934 Wreath Crown said:

Heritage

Ok, reputable for American coins but could they spot a fake 34 wreath in a slab. To be honest i'm not sure they'd give it a 2nd glance if it was slabbed when sold because NGC guarantee authenticity, so Heritage would just describe it. I'm sure someone on here bought a cromwell from there that was suspect, the thread will be kicking around somewhere

[1934 Wreath Crown]

NGC 4184400-005

[azda]

The problem is, if you break it out and it is fake you'd not get a penny back

[1934 Wreath Crown]

Can one return it if it is a proven fake?

[azda]

1 minute ago, 1934 Wreath Crown said:

Can one return it if it is a proven fake?

Yes, to Heritage who sold it to you, they'd then contact the consignor

[1934 Wreath Crown]

Thanks. I will try contacting them later today about it. Have to go now but please keep the suggestions coming.

[mhcoins]

Looks genuine to me, just a well circulated example

[VickySilver]

I think a big problem reveals itself  when looking at the original post in the other forum. I quite see the micro casting marks when blown up on Mac Book Pro as well. Also, I agree that the Obverse ear detail and hair detail, especially at the nape of the neck and just above is  just not right. I have seen a lot of these 1934s as well and must admit to this one being quite different overall in metal appearance from those I am certain were legitimate, even the variable of just how it oxidizes at the wear spots on the higher points. I agree that Mr. Hill at Baldwin would have to be considered amongst the very best at late milled identification.

I don't remember before seeing any fake 1934 NGC-slabbed pieces, but there is much incentive to reproducing this date. I have also seen Wreaths identified as proofs by both PCGS and NGC that are clearly not, and then subsequently seen Heritage pass them through their auctions without further comment. The coins were not fake, just not properly graded

[mrbadexample]

10 hours ago, VickySilver said:

I quite see the micro casting marks...

Is that something you can elaborate on VS? I would appreciate any help in spotting fakes, although it's unlikely I'll ever have enough spare cash for the 1934.

I've had a look at the photos on the other forum too, and whilst I can't pretend I really know what I'm looking at, I note two areas that might be a sign of casting. The crack above the E and the slightly grainy edge as per these pictures - am I on the right track?

[azda]

Trying to find as many link to the referencing of 1934 fake wreaths, the one just below was a discussion on here about them, just click on the name 1934 crown

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/beware-fakes-seem-to-be-in-abundance.278357/

how to spot a fake 1934 wreath crown

Edited May 20, 2016 by azda

[VickySilver]

The OP was on Cointalk under title GB Silver.  The images of the 1934 seem to be of better quality, or at least magnify with better resolution on my computer, where there appear to be stigmata of casting in both the field and also on the bust. The problem areas to me are most obvious on the obverse as were pointed out. Badexample did show a bit of rim problem there as well. I have a GEF example that I might lamely try to post through somebody else if they take emails - PM me if that might be possible.

[azda]

Wreath, where are you based, if London, there are many dealers that might take a look at it, but i think ideally you're going to need confirmation that it is a fake from someone of note, aka Baldwins or Spink etc etc and obviously they can't free it, but i'm sure Heritage would possibly take it back it there was some sort of accompanying letter as to the authenticity issue.