Martinminerva

And the winner is... Blakeyboy. People have seen sense after all!!

He has...  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Nice-Grade/333797053007?hash=item4db7dad24f:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx  Now at £30, with 18 bids, and just under three days to go... Who fancies a sweepstake on its final silly sale price? I will say £250. Anyone else fancy playing?!😜

I just compared it to my example, and I agree, it is a F192A. 100% agree too. As I've said before, they're still out there if one keeps eyes peeled!  What's she going to do with it? Put it in a main auction house sale?  What sort of money do they make nowadays? 

Whoops! Deleted, but see next post...

Good shout, Paddy - I bet that's exactly it! Wonder if the original high bidder got cold feet as a result of the forum or Richard's website? I see the new listing has now got a bid... which removes the offer option, but I will keep watching to see what it finally makes. I still wouldn't be surprised if it goes for silly money "just in case", in the mind of an ignorant punter!

He has... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Nice-Grade/333797053007?hash=item4db7dad24f:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx No mention of the "die number" now! But, interesting to see he now has a best offer option available for it - Lukasz doesn't usually do that, so maybe he has listed it for the idiot to put an idiotic offer in! Watch closely over the next few hours to see if it does sell!!

I have culled this from his original listing... So, some cretin had put a bid in of £2850 ! Wonder if the same cretin put that offer to him?? Or was it a deliberate ploy to "win" and never pay as was mentioned above? That's been done many times before to dubious lots.

The page now says "the listing is no longer available." That often means the seller has sold it off-platform! Wonder if some idiot made him an offer he couldn't refuse?! Keep eyes peeled, though, in case it is relisted with a different or more accurate description!

I see it's already at £155 !! Some people are really gullible... Hope no-one on here is bidding. Surely if you're willing to pay a three figure sum (or maybe more ultimately) for a "rarity", you'd think you'd know enough about coins to know that this IS NOT a die number penny. I think it has actually been doctored to masquerade as such - and not very well at that! Any guesses what it will finally make?! And then for whoever buys it, any guesses as to when they'll realise they've been burnt! Presumably if and when they try to resell... Fools!

Just seen this on eBay... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Die-Number-3-Nice-Grade-Extremely-RARE/233786563271?hash=item366ec3dac7:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx Really don't think so!! Beware! Do others concur??

Ah, but they can do Lab-tests...😋

Ok, not an O over sideways O, nor a G over sideways G, but I have just listed on eBay an 1874H farthing with C over C as per wybrit's post above, if anyone's interested, with this link... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284069502338 I have another one myself, so this one listed is a duplicate, but I don't know how many more have been noted? Not as spectacular as the sideways double entries, but it's there if anyone wants it as a variety!

Yes, isn't it, Mike? But just shows that there are rarities still out there, even if recently dug up. I'm not going to try to clean it at all - too much risk of damaging the evidence! Anyway, don't care about the reverse! The verdigris looks dead and inactive, but I will be sure to keep an eye on it.

And more pics...

Well, here's a pretty good acquisition I think! It is an example of the 1860 penny F15 dies 4+D, but with the I of BRITT struck over a T (or vice versa). Ok, it is a detector find and has its issues, but the base coin is solid enough and not too worn, and the error is clear. Only one other was known, I believe, and is on Richard's rare penny website. Interestingly, I can confirm that actually it is the modified version of obverse 4 with central cut fishtail, which also would appear to be true of the one already on Richard's website, but not sure if this was observed at the time? Pictures below (and in next post too...) and feel free, Richard, to add them to your penny site. Not that I would ever contemplate selling it, but what sort of value might it have given on the plus side its rarity, but on the down-side its overall state??

Great, Mike - glad you like it and it's gone to a good home. Initially, I was a bit worried that the tracking number said it hadn't been delivered yet, given various previous posts about dodgy post, but all is good!

I have just listed a slightly battered 1854 over 3 penny here on eBay, Mike, if you or any other forum members are interested. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1854-over-3-Genuine-overdate-Victoria-copper-penny-Very-rare-and-seldom-seen/284038614822?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3Dfe85d40bab1b47699207c764eec150ee%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D203128428461%26itm%3D284038614822%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507 it is very edgy and has been historically cleaned, but it IS a genuine specimen.

Thanks for such a swift and detailed response again, Ian. Really interesting and helpful. Wonder if Richard might be interested in pics of some of the 13 for when he updates his rare penny website that he said he would do?? Also, great spot for your 2009 small date specimen from ebay! A jolly nice coin!

Hear, hear! An amazing piece of dedication and meticulous study. Wow! This might be an even sneakier follow up question: of those 6 small dates and 7 large, do you reckon they were 13 different specimens, or were some of them coming round again?😮 One would have to look for unique wear points or damage or discolouration etc to be sure, I guess... Since I have been aware of the two types and been looking ( perhaps 5 or 6 years ) for them, I have certainly seen fewer small date than large, both on eBay and in mainstream auctions like London Coins. But your figures, Ian, would suggest similar rarity. I wonder now with this thread and revived interest, if a few more specimens of each type might surface?? Bravo to you, Ian!

Ah, but I bet yours isn't a seven year old iPad 2 ...😀 It doesn't do macro. Not my usual thing I take pictures with, but it was all I had to hand today. Anyway, it still confirmed for Cliff the presence of the die clash he was asking about.

Hi, Cliff. Just looked at my low grade one and yes, the die clash is there. Looks like that is another good diagnostic as well as the die crack through the 5. Apologies for poor quality pics here from crappy iPad, but you should be able just to make out both clash and die crack. They are both much clearer in hand.

Found it : Auction 137, 3/6/12, Lot 478. Sold for £600. The diagnostic feature of the genuinely small date is a die crack running up through the 5 of the date. Think this is the only one sold by London Coins - as I say, their other ones are mistakenly called this small date when they are not. I have a low grade one also with the die crack and think I have seen a picture somewhere on this forum (where??) of another. Any more known by anyone?

Well, blow me, Mike - it was me you have bought it from! Didn't recognise the full name when I came to packet it up for posting. Anyway, really pleased it is going to a good home. I managed to get hold of a better one a few weeks ago so was moving this one on. You now need to look out for a large rose but with a small date! These are MUCH rarer it seems... I have one in rather low grade and have seen maybe only two more. For a long while, London Coins were selling these larger date ones as small date, but they are certainly not! I think they have sold one genuinely small date one for quite a sum. I'll see if I can locate their image of it now... Enjoy the coin! Posted yesterday (Monday) so hopefully you'll get it today or tomorrow.

I see this 1881H F103 sold recently on eBay for an astonishing sum, albeit a very rare coin, and no doubt a real surprise and pleasure for the seller who can't have known. Anyone here buy it?? If we go by Richard's rare penny website, it would appear to be the eighth known? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1881-H-Great-Britain-One-1-Penny-1881H-Mark-H-for-Heaton-Mint-1d-/114312844580?hash=item1a9d939524%3Ag%3Ah7MAAOSwOKpfFLWg&nma=true&si=HsvO6lNGBPRb%2BAmvjfay%2BxU5S9A%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Just shows that the rarities are still out there!

Yes. Freeman 21, die pairing 3+D. On Richard's rare penny website as example 17. Looks like the verd has been removed a bit...