Martinminerva

Hi, all. I bought it, indeed as a curiosity. The seller had a "best offer" button on the listing, so I put in an offer and he accepted! I can confirm it has indeed been modified from an 1859 specimen. There is no w.w. and under extreme magnification one can see where material has been moved from the centre of the 9 to plug the "gap" at about 8 o'clock in the original digit so it looks like a continuous curve. But, my word, it has been done skilfully! I bought it as I remembered seeing one before (presumably Gary's above) and wondered how many others might be out there. I will try to take close-ups of the date later and post. The seller also told me that he bought it from Seaby's when they closed down and said it had been in old man Seaby's (would that be Peter Seaby??) personal collection as a curio. Wonder if he bought it from the auction Bramah mentioned? No way of knowing that, I guess... So, not a unique rarity - never thought it was - but a brilliantly executed alteration. Wonder why anyone would take the time and effort to do it, though?

And I think this would perhaps qualify as an alternative ONF penny - nearly even PFNNY too!! Certainly many letters are weak or deficient. A good diagnostic I suspect of this fourth die. Any other specimens out there?

You pipped me to that one, Jerry! I was just "buying it now" when it closed! Also, did anyone on here get this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Queen-Victoria-Penny-1861-/393052202355?hash=item5b83bca573%3Ag%3A0uYAAOSwzEpf03PO&nma=true&si=HsvO6lNGBPRb%2BAmvjfay%2BxU5S9A%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 It is an 1861 6+F, detector find but nice. It actually sold for a best offer of £100. I also put an offer in, but less and was beaten, but that's how I know what it actually went for. If you did get it, can you post better pics, perhaps?

Actually all these widest date 1889s I've seen (half a dozen or so) are obverse R (when the leaf area is clear, that is) with the extra leaf and NOT obverse S. I think it's an error in Michael Gouby's book, and they all should be BP 1889Ad. I have never seen a positively identifiable 1889Cd. Not a huge worry as they are properly rare anyway, but for the sake of total precision, I believe they are all this die pair in actual fact.

Nice one! These wide 1889s are rare in any condition, and this one is ace! Can you post a pic of the obverse too? Was it on eBay, or a dealer, or just a chance find? Happy Christmas to you all!

Do it!! It'll be hilarious if you win it for less than you bid originally! Mind you, then he might not fulfil the transaction and lead to even more fun and games!😏

Also very fishy is this eBay store address above. Typing that into the browser, all you get is this:

Yup, all from Lockdales.......  No reply yet. Jerry Lockdales have an eBay presence... Their user name is rothesay21 and it might be worth contacting them through eBay to alert them to these fishy goings on. Easiest way to do that is via one of their current listings, such as this... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GB-Queen-Victoria-Bronze-Bun-Head-Farthing-1863/233799046307?hash=item366f8254a3:g:qGIAAOSwBj9fwOUI Definitely something odd going on to judge by his unpleasant replies. Good luck!

He has got a few negatives from people who say his items never arrived. I see also he is listing a few other coins at the moment, including a couple of 1856 pennies. Have these pictures been culled from Lockdales too, I wonder... ?

Perhaps, Richard, you should report him/the item to eBay using the report this item link on the listing page? Taking pictures from another source is against eBay rules, not to mention false advertising!

And the winner is... Blakeyboy. People have seen sense after all!!

He has...  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Nice-Grade/333797053007?hash=item4db7dad24f:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx  Now at £30, with 18 bids, and just under three days to go... Who fancies a sweepstake on its final silly sale price? I will say £250. Anyone else fancy playing?!😜

I just compared it to my example, and I agree, it is a F192A. 100% agree too. As I've said before, they're still out there if one keeps eyes peeled!  What's she going to do with it? Put it in a main auction house sale?  What sort of money do they make nowadays? 

Whoops! Deleted, but see next post...

Good shout, Paddy - I bet that's exactly it! Wonder if the original high bidder got cold feet as a result of the forum or Richard's website? I see the new listing has now got a bid... which removes the offer option, but I will keep watching to see what it finally makes. I still wouldn't be surprised if it goes for silly money "just in case", in the mind of an ignorant punter!

He has... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Nice-Grade/333797053007?hash=item4db7dad24f:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx No mention of the "die number" now! But, interesting to see he now has a best offer option available for it - Lukasz doesn't usually do that, so maybe he has listed it for the idiot to put an idiotic offer in! Watch closely over the next few hours to see if it does sell!!

I have culled this from his original listing... So, some cretin had put a bid in of £2850 ! Wonder if the same cretin put that offer to him?? Or was it a deliberate ploy to "win" and never pay as was mentioned above? That's been done many times before to dubious lots.

The page now says "the listing is no longer available." That often means the seller has sold it off-platform! Wonder if some idiot made him an offer he couldn't refuse?! Keep eyes peeled, though, in case it is relisted with a different or more accurate description!

I see it's already at £155 !! Some people are really gullible... Hope no-one on here is bidding. Surely if you're willing to pay a three figure sum (or maybe more ultimately) for a "rarity", you'd think you'd know enough about coins to know that this IS NOT a die number penny. I think it has actually been doctored to masquerade as such - and not very well at that! Any guesses what it will finally make?! And then for whoever buys it, any guesses as to when they'll realise they've been burnt! Presumably if and when they try to resell... Fools!

Just seen this on eBay... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victoria-Penny-1863-Die-Number-3-Nice-Grade-Extremely-RARE/233786563271?hash=item366ec3dac7:g:JucAAOSwT~lftTJx Really don't think so!! Beware! Do others concur??

Ah, but they can do Lab-tests...😋

Ok, not an O over sideways O, nor a G over sideways G, but I have just listed on eBay an 1874H farthing with C over C as per wybrit's post above, if anyone's interested, with this link... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284069502338 I have another one myself, so this one listed is a duplicate, but I don't know how many more have been noted? Not as spectacular as the sideways double entries, but it's there if anyone wants it as a variety!

Yes, isn't it, Mike? But just shows that there are rarities still out there, even if recently dug up. I'm not going to try to clean it at all - too much risk of damaging the evidence! Anyway, don't care about the reverse! The verdigris looks dead and inactive, but I will be sure to keep an eye on it.

And more pics...

Well, here's a pretty good acquisition I think! It is an example of the 1860 penny F15 dies 4+D, but with the I of BRITT struck over a T (or vice versa). Ok, it is a detector find and has its issues, but the base coin is solid enough and not too worn, and the error is clear. Only one other was known, I believe, and is on Richard's rare penny website. Interestingly, I can confirm that actually it is the modified version of obverse 4 with central cut fishtail, which also would appear to be true of the one already on Richard's website, but not sure if this was observed at the time? Pictures below (and in next post too...) and feel free, Richard, to add them to your penny site. Not that I would ever contemplate selling it, but what sort of value might it have given on the plus side its rarity, but on the down-side its overall state??