Colin G.

Welcome to the forum, always good to see a new face.....my unbiased opinion would be go for the farthings Get yourself to a local coin fair if there are any, it gives you a great opportunity to view allsorts, and get to see the coins in the flesh. Plenty of information on teh forum, but do not be afraid to ask for any help or info

I reckon its a case that the coin design would be backwards on the die, the 6 was due to be repaired, so logically the workers mind may think recut the third digit, when it is actually the second because of the design being reversed....does that make sense

First one loonks like E/R which would fit theoretically with someone starting GRATIA instead of GEORGIVS and then realising the mistake. However given the state of the die, it may be difficult to be sure without a clearer example, it could just be good old die breaks, appearing as something else, but i have to admit there does seem to be something under there Definitely been dipped though

I never knew that to be the case, there are certainly some examples where no attempt has been made to fill the previous digit, but others where there does appear to be some effeort at hiding the repair. I always assumed (rightly or wrongly) that the impression of the new digit lead to metal movement that would weaken the image of the underlying digit. This would also explain why a lot of the underlying digits always appear thinner than they would have originally. I also have coins that seem to show that the underlying digit disappears with time, exactly why this occurs I do not understand yet, and still need to really put soem effort into studying it. Glad this question was asked, we may be able to try and put some logic to it Oh and why we are on the subject would anyone like to put any logic to delayed overdates. Why 1865/2 farthings, why no 1863/2 or 1864/2, was it just that they had enough dies for 1863 and 1864 but went a bit short in 1865, or did they find them in the back of a cupboard in 1865 and think, we can utilise those

Russ, That looks more like die doubling, because as you say parts of the design are also doubled. I beieve this can happen when part of the press works loose, and so the die "chatters" as the coin is struck.

Sorry

Dave prepare yourself for the solicitors letter that's about to drop on your doormat, I am claiming for repetitive strain, I have never typed so much on this forum I agree this is definitely the one way that newbie's will see what a bunch of nutters helpful people we are on the subject

I agree wholeheartedly, you should have joined in earlier it would have saved me and Dave some typing As for the new collector that is why it is essential to know what you are buying before you buy, and therefore buy the book before the coin (especially expensive ones). The same rule must apply to all areas of collectables and/or investing. If you go in blind you will get burned, it does not make it right, but it will always happen.

That is exactly the point I am trying to make, you do not buy a grade, you buy a coin. By all means use the grade as an indicator (and again I will say any blatant attempt to overgrade is definitely wrong), but you are buying a coin not a grade. As long as you get the coin you want for the price you are willing to pay why is that a bad move as a serious collector. When you come to sell your coins in years to come, you are still selling a coin, the grade it was given at the time you bought it will have very little effect on your sale unless it is from one of the few prestigous dealers or it has provenance from a known collector (or its in a plastic tomb with the grade written on it )

Blimey he must have rattled you I must remember never to sell you a dodgy looking coin. Thank God you collect pennies

You can use this site to check feedback going right back, it sifts out the neutrals and negatives http://toolhaus.org/ I still don't agree with your perspective on things, but we will just have to agree to disagree. I do agree that the dipping should have been highlighted to sellers. I still don't see an issue with the London Coins scenario, London Coin's grade is just their opinion. You will find coins that sell at different auction houses getting different grades, it does not mean that one is being underhand, it is just differing opinion. It is only if it is being done intentionally to deceive that it is wrong. I wouldn't anticipate many newbies buying a £2,500 coin on ebay anyway, and certainly would not recommend them to do so, I would not buy a £2,500 stamp off ebay because I know nothing about them and therefore it would be a very foolish move

Actually I take it back, I have drooled over a few over those, and I am not even a penny collector

More pennies!!

Dave, I am not trying to argue about this, just trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I have not seen anything shown yet in black and white that implies that underhand dealings have taken place. If they are made available I will change my opinion but at the moment I speak as I find, and that is why I gave my personal opinion

I would not be willing to publicly slate someone on the back of something "someone" told me. Personal experience is a completely different scenario. If a wrong is being done, I am not condoning it, but as with anyone's grading there is the potential for a difference of opinion, and offering a full refund would seem an acceptable solution in the circumstances, it does not necessarily imply bad practise. Many people buy from people then sell on for more, that is in simple terms what coin dealing is, and there is nothing wrong in that if it is handled correctly. If you at the time as a seller were satisfied with the price you got for an item, why should you then be annoyed if the person you sold them to got more for the item. If you had asked him what they were worth and he made you an offer then sold them for substantially more, I could understand the annoyance, and this in my mind is a completely different scenario.

Why of course

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and yours is as valuable as anyone else's. I know I have purchased off Martin in the past and the service was great, I have personally had no problems.

That is the perfect phrase in my mind, there are Guernsey coins with mintages of 60,000 where you can obtain a top grade example with relative ease, try and do the same thing with certain date copper farthings where the mintages are substantially higher. This is what makes determining rarity nearly impossible, you would have to factor in availabilty/mintage/grade and many other aspects, and even then it would have to incorporate a fairly large factor of safety, and I guarantee plenty of other numismatists would disagree with some of the ratings!!

Detectorist.co.uk Link to a metal detcting forum, the best one by a mile in my opinion

Die cracks are quite common in this series, and generally do not add to the value of a coin, if anything they can actually detract from the value

I agree definitely a Jetton

I am also a detectorist, so would be willing to offer you any advice. I know a couple of guys on our detecting forum are from Germany, so they may be able to give you some pointers on the rules and regs over there

Thats soudns like a very familiar story...the same one in my household...apart from the shilling!!

John is right, if it were a penny it would become a variety, but it does look like some form of damage to the die. I do record these where possible just to get an idea of frequency and whether it is a progressive flaw. The recut linear circle is quite a common feature on 1860 coins and is really bad on some of them