ozjohn

Another toned example I have.

GENUINE UNC? MS 60 - 65, FDC UNC. There are many versions of GENUINE UNC. If you have long enough pockets go for slabbed coins but even then opinions are different.

With reference to Rotographic Grading British Coins and the fairly poor phot I would grade your sovereign as better than VF but just shy of EF say abt. EF. In all a very nice coin.

Very Nice.

Can't say I've seen any counter stamped civil siege pieces either. As far as I can see they are counter stamped bits of silver produced from silver not originally intended for coinage.

Azda, at the risk of digressing from this thread further I suggest you take a look at Australian holey dollar prices and gradings it is all in the counter mark the original coin is of no consequence. If you think about it someone has butchered a coin by removing its center or making a dent in it using a metal stamp. Normally these coins would be only bullion value after such action but in this case the marking is official thus making the coin rare. This again is true for civil war siege pieces of silver where it is the counter mark that makes these pieces different from any other piece of silver. In all cases beware of fakes.

azda the point was the coin was graded on the basis of the original Mexican coin not its counter stamp as it should have been. However my observation is dragging the subject of this thread away from its original intent something that happens a lot in these forums. The UK and Sheldon scales are probably better discussed as a separate thread.

Sorry XF which probably equates to VF.

With reference to the slabbed countermarked dollar which is graded VF. As you may be aware similar coins were issued in Australia with the center punched out which was called the dump worth 15 pence 1/- 6 and the rest of the coin called a holey dollar worth 5/-. From what I understand when grading these items it is the condition of the counterstamp which is graded not the original coin's condition. Perhaps another example of 3rd parties grading coins they do not fully understand.

1820 Halfcrown I think I paid about $AU 110 for it in the late 1980s

Nick. Jet propelled halfcrowns?

Looking through today's Ebay listings I came across this item CGS UIN 30853 Ebay Item# 111612758697 which is a 1930 halfcrown graded CGS 80. Looking at the obverse picture in both CGS and Ebay I could see the coin has 3 dig marks in a line on the side of the head between the King's eyebrow and the top of his ear. These are not bag marks as they are too regular and deep. How does a coin as damaged as this get a grading of 80 therefore increasing its potential price to a collector. The more I see of CGS the less confidence I have in their ability to grade coins correctly. A few days a go I was asking if a gothic crown was genuine and one correspondent suggested CGS to check its authenticity. In all honesty I think they would be the last people I would consult.

19th & 20 C silver is my area of collection and I would interesting if this article touches on the poor strike quality of George V silver and tips on grading them especially the 1911 to 1926 florins whose strike quality seems measurably inferior to that of the halfcrowns struck in this period..

Thanks look forward to reading this article.

Thanks I have looked on coincommunity.com it seems the salient points are the alignment of the et in the side inscription and the Vic in the legend and the quality of the side inscription as suggested by Nick. The differences seem to be illustrated very well. There are also pictures showing a good coin and a fake showing small differences in the strike but I think the edge inscription seems the most telling as it is probably the hardest to reproduce.

Thanks for the advice. I looked at the edge inscription and it looked pretty good. When I go into Brisbane I'll have another look if the coin is still for sale.

I went into Brisbane today and looked in a coin shop. There was a 1847 gothic crown described as about UNC with a few surface marks for $AU 3725 approx. GBP 1863. Is this too good to be true? The dealer assured me that it was genuine. To be fair I have brought coins from this dealer in the past and have always been happy with the grading and price of the coins I have brought in fact the dealer seems to be conservative in their grading. Assuming this seems to be a reasonable deal is there any thing to look for with fake gothic crowns. Any information would be gratefully received. Thanks

Can you be sure that CGS weren't the source of the edge knock?

A good Aussie saying!

I'm visiting the UK this year and may pay the museum a visit. Is the museum part of the B of E or located elsewhere?

As I observed earlier being a grading company and a coin dealer at the same time is incompatible as discussed in these forums earlier regarding the US outfit National Numismatic Certification. If CGS want to maintain their integrity as a third party coin grader they should make a choice and get rid of their London Coins outlet.

A poorly struck coin. The obverse seems to have a wider than normal rim indicating that it wasn't struck properly hence the flat ear. However the raised edge of the rim to the RHS of the head at about 1 to 2 o' clock indicates that there has been little circulation otherwise it would be flattened also it indicates that the blank didn't fit correctly in the die during striking otherwise it would be around the whole of the rim as can be seen on some coins. Again the reverse suffers from the light struck as the center of the shield which is particularly poorly struck is roughly in the same place as the flat ear. The scratch who knows where that came from. Overall the high grade assigned to the coin does not seem to be justified as I have seen coins graded at GVF looking better than the subject coin. I do not think any grading system really describes coins such at this with any accuracy. PGS try to include strike into the equation with their MS graded coins but the 10 odd percent they devote to this would hardly describe the deficiencies in the strike quality of this coin. Perhaps CGS's grading is more a result of the conflict between the grader and the seller of the coin being one and the same organization.

The US as they proposed it ? Why 0 to 70 I don't know 0 to 100 would be better. PGS use this in their initial assessment then rescale from 0 to 60. If the coin is UNC ie MS 60 the final 61- 50 is used to describe the appearance of the UNC coin rather than the wear at least that is what their video implied 0ne thought that struck me was an AU 58 coin with little bag abrasions etc. could look a whole lot better than a MS 61 - 63 graded coin. Toning after grading could be an issue but degreasing the coin before slabbing then slabbing the coin in an airtight inert capsule should take care of that issue. This is a preservation issue.

Interesting and instructive video. The following points. Firstly the US grading is not exactly equivalent to the UK and Oz scales and secondly the video explains the system used for grading of less than MS coins by PGS with coins below VF the coin is graded on what's left of the design and what is missing from the design for higher graded coins up to 60. Also the Sheldon scale of 0 to 70 has been shoehorned into a 0 to 60 scale with the higher grades 61 to 70 used to grade the surface condition, luster etc. Overall informative on the PGS system which I thought before seeing this video was purely based on the Sheldon scale. No grading system is perfect but this at least tries to take some of the subjectivity out of the grading system.

Is this due to strike quality or that very few E2 coins were put by?