Coinery

I wonder if when we hit the CuNi phase a lot of the magic went out of of it all? No longer the treasure chests of pirates past, may as well be plastic now, with integral security chips. I think of how much more inspiring it must have been to be working with precious metals; the engravers, the mint workers, surrounded by all that gold and silver. The magic and mystery of man's second greatest attraction must have brought some special energies to the creative table? I know there are many, many, many, people who collect the post 1920 coinage, but I just cannot get excited about it! Do you think the mint cranks it up a gear for the modern gold and silver strikes? Do you think CuNi is a factor affecting inspiration?

Copies are usually made from tin or tin alloy. It has a ring which is not out of sorts. Some casts give a dull clunk when you tap them, but others sound more realistic. Even within genuine coins you get a variation in the ring. Just out of interest, have you ever come across genuine coins that have a very flat uninspiring no-ring, for want of a better word, before? Obviously it starts other bells ringing, but I've come across some which weigh right, test positive for silver, pass every other test I can apply to rule out joined halves, casts, etc. but just sound terrible. I guess my question is does a genuine coin always have a 'right' ring, or can one sound 'flat'? Sorry, Rob! Just to clarify...I know you've mentioned variation, but I mean 'NO ring', most definitely a flat nothing! A flan crack can sometime cause that effect Hi Colin, But in the absence of...? Have you had, or do you have, any coins that sound like a disc of aluminium or a plastic milk bottle top (Morrison's green top), yet are made of silver, and show no other good reason for being a copy/fake/forgery, etc?

Copies are usually made from tin or tin alloy. It has a ring which is not out of sorts. Some casts give a dull clunk when you tap them, but others sound more realistic. Even within genuine coins you get a variation in the ring. Just out of interest, have you ever come across genuine coins that have a very flat uninspiring no-ring, for want of a better word, before? Obviously it starts other bells ringing, but I've come across some which weigh right, test positive for silver, pass every other test I can apply to rule out joined halves, casts, etc. but just sound terrible. I guess my question is does a genuine coin always have a 'right' ring, or can one sound 'flat'? Sorry, Rob! Just to clarify...I know you've mentioned variation, but I mean 'NO ring', most definitely a flat nothing! A flan crack can sometime cause that effect I have the world's rarest coin - a 1967 penny that doesn't 'ring' Having said that, there is no evidence whatever of any cracking to the flan. That is actually a great comfort Monsieur le Peckris, because I have certainly had some good coins in every respect, as discussed, except they sound bloody awful! I really am wondering how often a genuine coins goes 'thuck' when you 'drop' it onto a hard surface, instead of 'brring'. The descriptive sounds are purely for entertainment value only, no brain cells were harmed in the creation of this post...I hope you know what I mean? :-)

Copies are usually made from tin or tin alloy. It has a ring which is not out of sorts. Some casts give a dull clunk when you tap them, but others sound more realistic. Even within genuine coins you get a variation in the ring. Just out of interest, have you ever come across genuine coins that have a very flat uninspiring no-ring, for want of a better word, before? Obviously it starts other bells ringing, but I've come across some which weigh right, test positive for silver, pass every other test I can apply to rule out joined halves, casts, etc. but just sound terrible. I guess my question is does a genuine coin always have a 'right' ring, or can one sound 'flat'? Sorry, Rob! Just to clarify...I know you've mentioned variation, but I mean 'NO ring', most definitely a flat nothing!

Copies are usually made from tin or tin alloy. It has a ring which is not out of sorts. Some casts give a dull clunk when you tap them, but others sound more realistic. Even within genuine coins you get a variation in the ring. Just out of interest, have you ever come across genuine coins that have a very flat uninspiring no-ring, for want of a better word, before? Obviously it starts other bells ringing, but I've come across some which weigh right, test positive for silver, pass every other test I can apply to rule out joined halves, casts, etc. but just sound terrible. I guess my question is does a genuine coin always have a 'right' ring, or can one sound 'flat'?

Very fast work, glad I'm not up against you with a snipe, or liking the same thing in an auction room! ;-) I scanned over amazon too, only the big buck books left on there that I could see! Good buy!

Do you know what? I'm going to academically research and write a chapter on this very issue, because it seems to me that nobody really has the answers to this most important, and repeatedly raised issue. I have asked similar questions about cleaning, protecting, decontamination, etc. etc. and made little headway. Certainly the books I own never touch on the subject, except to say NEVER clean coins. I'm not sure why they don't continue with 'but if you don't, that fingerprint that you can't even see right now, will make what was once an eye-pleasing bust into a horror story!' Got to be worth a few emails here and there, I'd say! I already have an academicaly written book called "cleaning and preservatio of coins and medals" it was published in 1976 by Durst and the number is ISBN 0-915262-03-7 Unfortunately it does not come with the doctorate that you need to understand it!!! I'll be buying the first available copy! Thanks for that!

Do you know what? I'm going to academically research and write a chapter on this very issue, because it seems to me that nobody really has the answers to this most important, and repeatedly raised issue. I have asked similar questions about cleaning, protecting, decontamination, etc. etc. and made little headway. Certainly the books I own never touch on the subject, except to say NEVER clean coins. I'm not sure why they don't continue with 'but if you don't, that fingerprint that you can't even see right now, will make what was once an eye-pleasing bust into a horror story!' Got to be worth a few emails here and there, I'd say!

Just moving something else across, I'm genuinely interested in the finer points of concluding this is a copy! 'If it's got a good ring, what is it made from apart from a nice tightly compressed bit of silver?'

''Right, we have a verdict. It's a copy. I have already conveyed the info to Paulus, but a general consensus of 4 people was 3 duff and 1 probably based on feel (slightly soapy), weight (4.91g), bubbles, particularly on the edge where it was probable that the sprue was removed, a few file marks on the edge etc. A fifth opinion given based on a comparison with the genuine article and about 15 or 20 other A2/1 shillings was that the C profile is wrong (too closed and with the top serif), the robe decoration is wrong, the lion is wrong and the linear circle on the reverse is too uneven, which given it is a guide is probably conclusive. However, it does ring quite well and so could possibly be a contemporary copy if it has been genuinely dug as the scrapes would suggest. '' Something that really interests me about this coin is, if it's cast, the original 'mould' must have been made presumeably from a genuine XII, there would be little point casting a fake from a fake. So, why would the C and robes, etc, etc, not have taken this form before? Is there any explanation for this? I'm assuming nobody would have bothered to cut their own C's?

It would be madness! The devaluing impact clipping has on coins is far far above any pennies 'literally' that you would make from a few microgram of trim.

I guess this thread is as good a place as any to bring to your attention that Blackpool trading standards are in the final stages of gathering evidence against an ebay seller who was selling lots of hammered, and 'other' coins, up to the 1k bracket, around 2010/11 apparently. So, a good time to check your seller lists, and start testing your hammered 'and others' with Silver Testers, etc. LAVENDERBLUE42, ring any bells? I personally bought a cleverly 'poor' imaged Henry VIII groat. As you probably know by now I have to use an alternative address which, in the case of the groat, I couldn't get to for around 3 weeks, enough time for lavenderblue to no longer exist! If anybody feels they may have been affected, I can provide the case officer's email address.

All this talk of silver scrap has got me begging to ask...where is the best place to sell? Does anyone have any sources, places they normally sell? I see ukscrapgold are offering .59p/g, has anybody ever sold to them? Do you get exactly what they say, without any hidden charges or issues?

What were your first thoughts on this book, did you like it? It's on my list.

About 10 years ago I regularly spent the equivalent of over 100% of my monthly income on single coins, I was consistently spending more than I could afford. However, I'm not sure if this really counts, because whilst I would love to have been/be in the position where I could buy a coin and own it forever more, I simply can't! Everything I've ever bought has always been for sale - negative side...I have always had a fluctuating collection. Positive side...I have a fluctuating collection, and have also enjoyed a large number of coins I would never have hoped to even touch, let alone personally paw over and research, had I been accumulating and damaging my cashflow by sitting on a fixed collection. I do one day wish to compile a personal encyclopaedia of coins, of the very very best. However, I need to be sure I'll never have to sell them, before I can fully put my heart into it.

This is an educated guess type of reply, rather than scientific but ... I have often cleared 'film' (i.e. grease, some dirt, or caked condensation, etc) off coins by immersing in surgical spirit and then wiping that off GENTLY using a microfibre cloth. I wouldn't use olive oil for what you plan to store in a plastic envelope, though a very thin film of it might do for coins in trays, but make sure you reapply every now and then - either annually or when you judge it's needed. But if olive oil is reportedly 'mildly acidic,' wouldn't a continuous film of the stuff eventually have a negatory effect?

How strange...we watched bomber boys tonight, and both my wife and myself instantly got into a discussion when Ewan McGregor gloved up to handle the type-written pages of a mere 70 year old document - we had both also watched the medieval illuminated pages being pawed over with what seemed little regard for their longevity. If I can selfishly expand and add to your query, as I'd also like to know, catagorically, rather than speculatively, what is the best thing to do with your immaculate lustred coin BEFORE placing it into a plastic slip, or taking the precautions of wearing gloves and/or holding it by the edge? You see, all the care in the world, and all the tender treatment by ourselves, is not going to make a jot of difference if some guy has stuffed our coin into an envelope whilst eating his fish and chips in front of the re-runs of Corrie on a Sunday night. Will will be the proud owners of an item with active, though presently invisible, lustre cancer, attacking the precious fields of our proudly won YH lustred Victoria penny. So, is there a professionally accepted procedure and/or products considered appropriate for decontaminating the different metalled coins? Would we be looking at PH balanced products? What precedents have already been set by museums?

Thank-you, chingford, for trying to help, I knew I'd be able to find an answer on here! Unfortunately, I can't provide any of the information you ask for now, as the lot has been sold! The sov and half sov were definitely present in the set, all high relief picked out in platinum. It was the majesty collection, no 38 of 80, went for £340 + comm. @ 22% I would have bid if I could've got some solid info in quick enough...it was quite bizarre constantly refreshing the forum posts in the run up to the lot going through about 1/2 one yesterday. Anyway, thanks for trying, much appreciated. I guess at 80 issued sets it was quite unusual. Just couldn't trust a bid without knowing what it was!

Nor, me! I can't find any info. anywhere! Is it likely to be fake, it looks pretty damn good to me. Apparently just 80 sets issued according to the slip inside. It's looks similar in presentation to the silver proof set. HELP info. needed from anyone!!!!

4. It may help my nearest and dearest if the unexpected were to occur and the collection needs to be be dispersed (although there are other ways of dealing with this). This is a fantastic point, maybe one we should all consider! It occurred to me, following the birth of my son, how I have boxes of our hard-won family assets, all tied up in nameless copper, silver, and gold 'discs', the true value of which could never be realised if I was to make a hasty departure from this existence! Think of any specialised artefacts being resold by a distraught and trusting loved one? Where would they go to, who would they communicate with? It had me thinking...what about a board of trustees, or a trusted individual, who would agree to being named and charged with the responsibility of selling a deceased's collection in the correct circles, achieving the right prices, and taking nothing other than a 5% commission on net sales. Has anyone ever set up any such safeguards?

Does anyone know anything about the liz 2 gold/platinum 80th birthday set? Sov and 1/2 sov in gold ( possibly a gold £2??) with relief in plat. Also coins down to penny which are gold and plat. plated in same style. Apparently 80 sets issued in total! Any ideas, thoughts, prices? In mint!

Being too new to this site to have taken part in the previous heated discussions, and holding back a bit, I would like to say that as a collector I hate them with a passion, for many if not all the reasons eloquently articulated by others. The first one I bought that was slabbed was immediately broken out of it (carefully I might add, with the aid of a hammer and chisel). But I can see the point for sellers, investors and dealers, if their integrity survives ... These are being slabbed as an experiment to measure sales, I truly hope to see them out of the slabs and in proper cared-for collections in the future. There are no slabs in my own private collection. I saw a liz halfpenny in a slab on eBay a while back, looked like something you could pick up in ikea, horrible!

I couldn't agree more! What you have said captures the whole spirit of it all. When I was 18 I bought an old Jaguar 420G for pennies and stripped the whole thing to pieces in my parents' back garden...lovingly dealing with every aspect of the rebuild was the thing that made that car special. I could afford one now, that is far better condition, and maybe even concours, but I wouldn't have anything like the same love and interest in owning something that has been grafted on by someone else...but many are the flashy classical car owners who go out and buy the best and don't even know what waxoyl is! They're classic car equivalents of the slab collectors, but there is no denying they are out there! Hanging around forums like this, making a few mistakes, battling out the details of a grade, is what makes it so fascinating for me!

Big smile, Gollum, you can certainly turn on the emicons :-)

I have to confess I sent off 15 coins for slabbing, just to explore the commercial viability of selling them first hand. I'm wanting to know whether they'll fetch any extra dividends that justifies the extra outlay. As Rob has said, a great deal has been said on the matter and, from a collection point of view, you either like them or you don't. However, I do believe, but have yet to corroborate it, that there is a UK market out there who are wanting to 'play safe' with their Internet purchases and, in the world of the web, feel safer when they can surf and read all about the TPG's and, in that 'researching' process, feel a level of security they can't find in a dodgy picture, or a 'home' grading by 'joes_stuff' on eBay, who then goes on to say 'see pictures (shoddy) and decide for yourself'! Maybe the slab buyers can grade, but just don't want to take responsibility for it, especially when they are shelling out hundreds, which they then have to justify to themselves. I know the TPG's grading is said to be variable, but it's slightly more consistent than Ebay's efforts and, the bottom line, you are more likely to find a buyer, should you come to sell it in the future, who will take the TPG'S efforts at grading far more seriously than Joe from Joes_stuff! Personally, I have to say, a box of clinical plastic slabs just doesn't do it for me, though I can see the entombment appealing to those who like accumulating investments...pots of sterling, gold rings, etc., and like the idea of the coin being somewhat protected. There you go Rob, that should get it going! ;-)