Coinery

Yes, this one's in D Groom's book! He also adds that one has the wave ON the exergue line, and the other above, which I can see is the case in your images! Groom, D., J., (2009) The Identification of British 20th Century Bronze Coin Varieties. Whitstable: DJG ISBN: 978-1-4092-8550-2 I think you're going to like it!

Just a thought, but I wonder whether it would be better described as a 'large 4' and 'small 4' variety? It'll be interested to see what accumulator, and anyone else comes back with, I don't have anything after G5 myself, apart from QEII pound coins, that is! I agree there certainly appears to be a difference, sharp eyes, let's see it duplicated and you're home! You know the author D J Groom frequents this forum, he's obviously spent a lot of time on things like this! A big welcome, a good post to enter with!

Wholeheartedly agree, horrible!

Someone's probably offered them a couple of grand off the 'bay, thinking they've got themselves a bargain! Well played by the seller though... 'box of collectables' 'think I need some help' 'found something similar, but this has some weird writing on it, Sinnon, or something' ! Nicely baited!

Not often you see a £60,000 coin on ebay, cast copy? Only needs to X 100 and it'll be there! Over £600 already!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120964068724?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Not the actual inner circles, though they are often helpful when comparing the position of other elements of the design, like the mark of value or legend. However there are occasions where additional beads appear in the legend. They occur during certain types, but also on 'unusual' coins, such as those struck from Welsh silver and also some 'fine work' coins. I'm therefore tempted to think that they had some significance beyond aesthetics, but I'm not aware that there are any records that describe their purpose. What is a 'fine work' coin, you ask? They appear to have been carefully struck on specially prepared flans to a (generally) high standard. Such as this: Sometimes, but not always, the privy mark is unusual suggesting they were produced before other coins of that type. I guess there could be examples where beads could be used to assist in identification with good effect. I'm thinking, particularly in that second image, that the 'Privy' mark is in such close promiximity to the beads that it could be used as a 'xxx points to bead' etc? Interesting stuff!

I've always admired Iron Maiden, and absolutely love D Gilmour, what a stunning album that 2006 'On an Island' was!

Thanks, Mongo, that's very decent of you!

Emails delivered into the hands of Chris Comber who, I'm assured, will pass it on to Messrs Brown & Wilkinson...result! Many thanks to Paul Withers and Richard 'The Thinker'!

No significance really, as very few coins have clear beading to begin with, plus the bead numbers would vary for each die! Also, double-strike, even by a half a degree would change the orientation of the beads altogether (and numbers, of course)! I guess if you had a couple of extremely well-struck coins from the same die you could certainly utilize the beading in those instances but, on the whole, i don't think you'd convince very many people in the hammered world that your coin was X on account of a point to bead etc., so I'm avoiding that marker altogether...unless there's nothing else left to go on! I keep praying now that all the mint workers were pi**ed on die preparation day, as the misaligned legends are undoubtably the best friend! Ironically, the larger denominations are more difficult, as there are far fewer misalignments and errors, or the cramming in of letters, because they quite literally ran out of space. Also, lest we forget, that blessing of letters encroaching one upon the other! All very interesting if you're a nerd/spotter, I mean collector!

Actually I have seen some LJG fantasies, gosh knows if Richard Lobel hasn't made some already, surely he will. Oh, I've had some of those too. Oops, did I say that out loud? I had to scroll back up to check you weren't Peter then!

I think it's Geordie too? Hinnie is the North East version (or "bitch" if it's the woman talking to the man) It was always "pet" we used though. I lived in Sunderland, South-Shields, and Washington, for a few years, it was always 'whay yeh, pet' when I was there!

I think it's Geordie too?

French coins can get quite interesting Usually a Mint Mark - normally a letter, but a little cow for Pau. Further complicated by additional dots adjacent to the mint letters, indicating the so called "Provisional mints" in the Constitutional period (1791-3) Coins prior to 1793 often have a raised dot (eg under the D of Ludovicus) to indicted the second simester (ie the second minting period of the year) Then there are what the French refer to as "les differants" a symbol for the National Chief Engraver, plus another for the local mintmaster Even more fun when you get to the Directoire (lan'5 - l'an8; 1796-1801) 5 centimes and decimes have not only overdates but overstrikes of the mint letters and/or the differents! David Crikes, really glad I asked! Thanks, both, between you guys and Richard it's getting clearer!

'me babber,' where I comes from!

It's all speculation, of course, but I'm thinking around 1000 dies for the shillings alone. Without making it a chore, I mean to have a go at a couple in the small hours of each evening (about an hour with all the staring included), so a couple of years for the shillings! I have only just realised that I enjoy collecting the images nearly as much as the coins! Well, nearly! The A's are really a poor place to start, as there are very few 'A' shillings that don't have enough of the privy mark remaining to classify them. I just happened to have a number of images at hand to make a start.

No Stuart, both just folk art love tokens, the worked "Scottish" one rather dubious in my opinion/experience! Wish I could make one!

C'mon, get your wallet out! 221092707248 Really pretty, I think! Would this be another trench piece? And another particularly old and interesting one 350585172154

Not fancying a Philip & Mary shilling or sixpence then?

I think I would probably count the combined-bust coins separately, as you may have done for W&M and W3? For the Henry/John coins, many identifications can be had using spink's, if you compare the moneyer information(at the end of the section) against the other pointers in the actual descriptions. It's more often a process of illimination, so identification working in reverse, but quite possible, even with low-grade coins! Which brings me to another point, why buy the halves and quarters and make your life really difficult? whole coins can be purchased really cheaply in the lower grades. Superb idea for a run, though, will certainly stretch the grey matter in the period you're now entering! Great stuff!

Hi all, I'd like to run the following text past you all, and ask for any insights, better processes, etc. etc! It's most certainly a work without end, more a labour of love, really, enriching my interest in the coins I already hold, or coins I see and admire and wish I could hold! I never thought I'd attempt anything like this, it's developed out of the search to verify my own possible 1578/7/6 sixpence. If I may, I'd like to use this thread throughout the process for all those questions of mine that will inevitably arise, and hope that some of you might help me out with some of the answers! Anyway, I think the following text and images are are reasonably self-explanatory, and an introduction to the basic website idea... Forward Firstly, if I might clearly state, this is not a research work, as it is neither rigorous, nor focused upon the discovery of anything new. Neither is it intended to be a new catalogue of micro-varieties, as all the vagarities of hammered coinage would make for an unenviable, if not impossible task. It is however quite simply a series of die observations designed to assist fellow collectors, who are interested in classifying their coins according to Brown, Comber & Wilkinson’s monumental work ‘The Hammered Silver Coins Produced at the Tower Mint During the Reign of Elizabeth I’ (Brown et al. 2009). A significant number of superb-quality coins currently escape the net of full BCW provenance, on account of ‘inconvenient’ weaknesses in the region of a key-identifier. Resolution can then only be found in die-matching, and this is the focus of this work and the following images. This is of course a work without end, which lends itself well to the regular updates of a web-based platform, notwithstanding the fact that a book full of thousands of high-resolution images would be unviable. For those who trouble to make use of the following pages, it is expected, for a considerable number of years to come, that dies will commonly be unrepresented, and better examples will become available. Should this be the case, I would very much appreciate copies of your images for inclusion into the catalogue. Method Rather than clarify every oddity of a particular die, it was thought better to gather a core sample of ten or more (where possible) different examples of type, and then identify the more determining irregularities. These were either unique to the die, at least within the preliminary sample, or were at least a less common feature. Any identifiers with potential for confusion, or those that were closely replicated on other dies, have been avoided where possible, but highlighted in red for secondary reference. Similarly, where dies share a number of ‘similar’ irregularities, with few decisive differences, footnotes are added for further clarification. It is hoped at some point that statistical analysis can be applied to the process, and a more scientific approach used overall. However, in the meantime, be patient with me and enjoy the process. Brown, I.D., Comber, C.H., Wilkinson, W. (2009) The Hammered Silver Coins Produced at the Tower Mint During the Reign of Elizabeth I. [2009 update] Llanfyllin: Galata Print Ltd. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx BCW ‘A’ Shilling Reverse (30th November 1583 – 13th February 1585) BCW’s ‘A’ shilling reverse types, numbering just two, are easily distinguished by the presence, or not, of an over-mark. Though much less common, XX dies are thought to exist with an ‘A’ over ‘Bell’. It is assumed from the outset that, unless the interest is in micro-varieties, attempts are being made here to classify a shilling with inconclusive privy mark detail. Accordingly, the following descriptors noted on the reverse ‘A’ dies, do not involve the privy mark itself. Reverse Dies of BCW's A-b Shilling

Can anyone shed some light on which, and why? I'm of course particularly interested in relation to its correct application to hammered and early milled! Also, off topic, but I'm scanning an auction catalogue at the moment...does 'comes with pre-decimal sales ticket,' mean 'sold by Chris'?

Yes, although it's imposrtant to distinguish between coins that have been professionally cleaned ('museum' cleaning) and those that someone has buffed up using some aluminium foil and spit (yes, people do that!) which effectively polishes (and rather ruins) them! A type of 'improvement' that always brings tears to my eyes, and I never keep them, is the one which smears silver-coloured deposits actually over the original black deposits! I've always attributed it to some foiling-type process or other???

On the contrary. The Civil War started during the currency of the Triangle in Circle mark which ran from July 1641 to May 1643. With output spread over 2 years, this was the most prolific mark of the reign with £1324 silver in the pyx. Contrast this with Heart which ran for 1 year June 1630-1 where the total value of silver in the pyx was £4. As a specific amount of production was removed for the trial, this gives a pretty good ratio of the amount produced. T in C is so common that you could reasonably argue that it is overpriced in comparison to other marks, but given the usual production standards seen it is still worth paying good money plus for a top rate piece. Any premiums will be the result of conditional rarity or type rarity. Within every mark there are types which are extremely rare. It is this rarity which drives the price and competition, as witnessed by the recent discussion on the T in C marked F7/2 shilling which virtually all collectors of hammered on this forum would have bought if they had been quick enough. 8 known, dire condition comes as standard, everyone wants one, but few manage. The price was almost irrelevant. I do hope you get to write a book one day, Rob! I always really enjoy reading your posts. Always logical and well constructed, makes sometimes difficult content an easy read! (_|_) I'm serious, though!