1949threepence

Nice one. Well done. Was that today? Have to say sound is far more useful than pictures. We don't need to see the auctioneer, but we do need to hear him speak. Ideally, it's good to have both, but sound is of way more benefit when bidding.

Thanks Ian. Yes they are sharp. Nobody seems to miss a trick these days. Did you get the 1847?

No worries - stick at it and you will be an expert. Just takes a bit of time, patience and study.

Because if you look at it Ian, the rim is unusually thick, which appears to be a hallmark of specimen/proof coins. Additionally, the detail is very sharp. They are the only characteristics which distinguish my F74 (bought as such with provenance) from a F73. I'm not saying I'm definitely correct. It might just be an ordinary F73, but it's general demeanour is suggestive of a specimen - in my opinion.

That's because it's no ordinary 1865 penny, but what's called a "pattern penny". Meaning the Queen's head is coroneted. The vast majority of Victoria pennies do not show the Queen with a crown on her head. So this one is special and extremely rare. What makes it even more unusual is that it was never actually intended for circulation, but obviously was circulated for maybe 80 odd years before someone noticed and saved it.

No, that one had escaped my attention, Terry. As for a perfect one........probably not, but you just never know.

Did you win it Terry? I spotted that F38 several weeks ago as well. Also what might possibly be a F74 specimen in the top left hand corner of the group.

Pleased to say I won lots 188 and 192 - the F25 in EF and the 1863 die No 3 under date.

What a surprise. Who got the magnificent F76? - went for £6k.

Now getting an on screen message "we will re-commence at 11am".

Just gone again......

Really not good. Live feed constantly being interrupted.

Thanks Pete. It's here It's the type of photo that isn't easy to download and upload unless you can cope with a small image, so I've linked directly to the post. Obviously you then click on the image to enlarge it.

Probably. Ingram and Ingram definitely. The booklet mentions the LT, H's, KN's & the ME. Undoubtedly they got hoarded.

Ah that one. I must admit I've never looked at it before. Yes that is a very nice specimen and now takes first place of the ones I've seen. ETA: the obverse side anyway.

That's a 164, Jon. We'd just changed the narrative slightly to the 164A.

I didn't think you were on facebook

By a country mile the best I've seen. None of the known others better than (at best) NVF, and most sub fine.

It's useful for the interest groups, for local (otherwise unpublicised) news, and in finding old friends you've not seen or otherwise heard of for many years. But much of the general day to day interaction is tedious beyond belief, unless you actually want to know the minutiae of other folks's lives, some of whom you barely know.

Unless they were collected (eg: the H's KN's and ME's of this world) absolutely. The vast majority would have been totally unaware, for example, of many varietal types of Edward VII and George V & VI. Hence, as I referenced in an earlier post, why some which are now extremely rare, were never collected pre demonetisation. Some weren't identified until Freeman's time, and the enthusiastic collectors of the mid to late 60's were probably using those small "Check your Change" booklets, which, whilst obviously very useful, did not cover the lesser known varieties. So they nearly all disappeared in the melt and probably many more in the subsequent unofficial melts which still go on to this day. Having now got nearly a full complement of Coin Monthly's from November 1966 to February 1971, it's also noteworthy that there is absolutely no mention whatsoever, in the sales ads, of many of the 20th century Freeman types we now know so well. A 1913 penny, for instance, was a 1913 penny. No more than that.

A related question, and may I say, a very interesting one. The "UNC" percentage seems to vary considerably from coin type to coin type, and although there is obviously some absolute relation to overall rarity, there are some definite real terms differences, which can be difficult to explain. For example, off the top of my head, amongst the rarest coins there are some, such as the F14 penny, the F8 and F9 mule (all 1860), and the 1862 F38 mule, which seem to have more than you would expect as UNC examples. There are others. Whereas such pennies as the 1864 (plain and crosslet), and the F98 1879 narrow date, which are not that desperately rare in lower grades, are extremely difficult to locate in top grade. The F90 1877 narrow date penny, which is roughly on a rarity par with the F8 & F38 mules, has nothing above fine among its ranks. Obviously I'm talking exclusively pennies here, as it's my specialism, but the same principles must apply across the board. In some cases I think there are more UNC specimens available because they were collected by default shortly after mintage, as part of a date run (the collector having no idea of the coin's significance at that time). In other cases, it's very difficult to know the precise reasons for either a surplus or deficit of UNC examples. I imagine we never will and are left to speculate.

Apologies for the industrial language, but I do think it's otherwise funny and just about sums up facebook at times.

Bob, I think there's a lot in what you say. Those ongoing unofficial melts, plus the lost coins mentioned by Jerry, probably account for a very substantial percentage of the bronze still existing after the RM official melt. ETA: I'd also bet that a faIr number of rare varieties have slipped through the net, due to loss of concentration when checking large numbers of coins. It'd be a lot easier to miss varieties when checking for a very few amongst a large number, than it would be when checking and classifying every single one, as Court did. So in conclusion, I'd estimate that from the accumulated losses <1% of Court's original estimates now remain extant. Considerably less than 1% in many instances.

I definitely think that applies to the F169, where the toothed border is often so worn, it's impossible to determine the type, either way.

Not to mention those eye wateringly huge buyer premiums.