1949threepence

I did reply to them, Bruce. Maybe a little sarcastically. That was last night. I'll now see if I get a response today. Should just clarify that their enquiry yesterday was a direct reply to my e mail of 15.3.22, Would have understood if it had been a separate one.

Unreal - where to start with this one. I sent an e mail to Ingrams on 15.3.22 asking for a close up pic of a coin they had on offer, and never got a reply. Then forgot about it anyway. I've just had a reply today completely ignoring what I requested, and asking me if there's anything I'm interested in at the moment.

Probably need to see it in hand then, because from where I'm standing there is absolutely nothing about its appearance, which suggests that it's a proof. Just a slightly scruffy, a/UNC business strike, with pretty much full lustre. Unless someone can point me to various features on the pic which mark it out as a proof. Maybe I'm missing something. Do you have a photo of the reverse? Maybe this is the sort of coin which at auction would lend itself to being videoed. Rotation through the angles in natural light might aid identification as a proof and show up the mirror like finish - unless prior provenance already exists.

Are some non proofs sneaking through as proofs? We've already seen that slabbing companies are making errors by accepting the customer's assertion on the coin itself, without checking. Maybe it's the way the pic has been taken, but that really doesn't look anything like a proof.

Some very interesting info. With regard to the 1841, I bet you wouldn't see much change from £1500 now.

Beauty - yours? Totally free of marks, apart from a tiny blemish on the Queen's neck. The smaller one is also a gem.

My photo is an accurate reflection of the overall true colour. Just doesn't bring the best of it out, as already stated. You were lucky to get yours for a song. But then coin prices are going up and up.

pic of my 1853 proof penny

I see what you mean about the copper proofs. The pic of the higher hammer price 1853 penny, for example, doesn't bring out the shimmering iridesence, and superb, red, green/blue toning in the legends, more typical of this date. If you didn't know, and someone told you it was a currency strike, you'd probably believe them. Of course you get the full effects when rotating the coin through the angles. The pic I took of mine doesn't bring out the best, but I think it's a little better than Noble's pic. Noble's pic

Yet some of the 19th century base metal proofs do attract fair prices. Some are very rare and highly collectable. Obviously they're not going to compare with gold proofs, because not only do you have rarity in many cases, but also bullion value. The two together makes them irresistible as investment pieces, especially given the substantial rise in gold prices recently. Ideal hedge against inflation which you physically hold yourself. That places them completely outside the mercy of banks and other financial institutions - many of these are not the solid dependable pillars of society they used to be, with their increasingly incomprehensible modes of operation and weird ID demands. I can definitely see the attraction.

Another interrsting little snippet is that the 1853 proof set had a mintage of just 40. So any proofs from that set are going to be super rare. Source

A few didn't reach estimate, but maybe not quite the same thing in this instance. Not sure. Some of the prices reached were astounding.

Bit more potentially useful information here, Chris:- source

now then, now then.....what a prize eh?

Of course they were originally part of the 1839 proof set, and according to the information relating to The Tyrant Collection just 300 were minted. However, they continued to be produced to order for many years after. So what the final total was, is anyone's guess.

Just looked in my coin yearbook. The mintage isn't given, unfortunately. Don't know if available elsewhere. Probably not. It can't be many though. I'd bet <500. Maybe even fewer than that. As it's gold, most are no doubt still extant.

Very well done. I would have liked to have bid for the 1831 William IV proof penny en medaille (ie: the reverse is not inverted, the rarer of the two types), but my registration approval e mail only came through just after this coin had gone - typical !!! My fault. Shouldn't have left it till the last minute.

At Noble Auctions Australia. Just watching this live (started 7:30pm their time, 10:30am UK time). The highlight of the sale has to be the 1839 five pounds Una and the Lion, which went for $780K (aus) which at an exchange rate of $1.74: £1.00 is about £448,275. Wow, is all I can say. Some big prices being attracted.

Ian, once again, thanks very much for having a close up look for me. Much appreciated. I thought it was probably an optical illusion, and looking at the detailed close up pics you kindly provide, it very obviously is. But it's always worth checking out, just in case. The grime in particular is very deceptive.

"Actually, that lighthouse doesn't look quite right for a reverse J. I've looked at my Freeman's 102, 105 and 106, which are all reverse J, and the lighthouses all taper downwards into a slightly broader base in a way that yours doesn't appear to, Bruce. Yours seems more akin to the lighthouse on reverse H." Wrote the original all wrong. Should have been as above.

Actually, that lighthouse doesn't look quite right for a reverse J. I've looked at my Freeman's 102, 105 and 106, which are all reverse J, and the lighthouses all taper downwards into a slightly broader base that yours appears to, Bruce. Seems more akin to the lighthouse on reverse H. Probably an optical illusion, but even so. Be interested to hear the thoughts of others on that one. I'm not sure about the rock.

Thanks for the tips chaps, but I reckon nothing can beat seeing the coin i hand, which is why I've sent it to Ian. It's more probable than not that I'm wrong about the date spacing, but at least I'll get a second opinion based on sight of the actual item.

I need to investigate and buy some close up photography equipment. If I get too close with what I've got, the pic just gets blurred.

Thanks Ian - I'll send it by next day tracked delivery tomorrow. Although it'll be next day but one, as the actual next day is Sunday.

Hi Ian - if it were purely the angle of the camera then it would not be as obvious to the naked eye as it is. If you like, I could send it to you for closer examination, to see what you think. Let me know. ETA: under magnification there is definitely some grime, but I'm not convinced that would distort the impression to such an extent.