Sylvester

Correct.

Much cruder in style but in the same price range are Henry III Pennies of the mid-thirteenth century. Either long or short cross types. Here is a long cross type that cost me about £25 or so, i think it was class Vg (5G not as in the grade VG just incase that confused you, it did me to begin with, i was looking all over for the class number!) These are a heck of alot cruder in style than the recoinage types of 1279 onwards, but i kinda like them. I love the guidelines for the halving and quartering, i'm sure this could cause problems if the coin, like this was off centre though! These coins are often available with a very dark grey almost black tone, not unlike Edward VII farthings. I have every reason to suspect mine's been cleaned at some time. Which in hammered coins isn't so much of a crime because afterall most of them are dug out of the ground and you have to clean them so you can identify them!

Class 10A Edward I Penny, CIVITAS CANTOR (This was my first hammered coin), I must have had it about 11 years now.

Here's one i never managed to suss out; Edward I Penny, CIVITAS LONDON, Seemingly of Class 4 or thereabouts, Class 4 what though is anyone's guess... (Chipped flans i might be able to live with, but ghosting is something i generally try and avoid where possible, but this had such a colourful tone with it that i had to buy it)

They do often sell below book price in my experience, or at least below Coincraft prices. But the prices vary according to quality of strike and clipping/chipping issues. Most mints are pricey in the higher grades. The most expensive ones of the lot are actually from the London mint, the first issue from the mint are very, very pricey indeed. I like Edward I coinage, it's good fun to identify, near impossible sometimes, but still fun. Now the Henries on the other hand... now they are often a nightmare to identify to a class or sometimes even a monarch.

Or we could all take turns... That could be good. Individual from a community puts themselves forward to represent the community (much like one of those voluntary magistrate people), if they get a certain percent of the town's popular support behind them (character witness type thing) then they can run for office in any particular town. All the town leaders then put themselves forward for leader of the city and the city population picks the best candidate, he or she becomes mayor of the city. All the city mayors go together to pick county mayors and you keep going up until you have a guy at the top running the whole country with advice from the other leaders etc. below he or she. No party government system. The law then requires that person to hold office for two/four years and then they must step down and allow a successor to take over. Make it compulsory that eligable candidates must pass certain exams to get to each level, kinda like driving tests, the usual, advanced etc. This should stop the system from falling into the hands of say a drug addict off of the street.

Bristol mint ones aren't uncommon and being in Bristol as you are i should think you'd have a decent chance of finding one sooner or later, probably later. Having said that though, the London and Canterbury ones are the predominant ones. Bury St. Edmunds and York are about the next two findable mints. As for Reading mint well that's a whole different kettle of fish. Lincoln would be my favourite though. The latter mint is sometimes referred to as NICOLE, however NICOLE is also a name of a moneyor, such as Nicholas of York in Henry III's reign? I wonder if there are any NICOLE ON NICOLE coins out there?

Every system has it's flaws, those of course were quite common ones typical to the period. But British democracy was equally restrictive until about 1918. A few tweaks here and there.

I disagree. However, I do think our poltical system started its steady decline when it was decided to pay politicians. I agree with you on that score Oli, politician should be a voluntary job.

Henry III and Edward I pennies can be obtained in very nice conditions for £35. Other small coins for later periods can be got for less than £40 in acceptable conditions. One of the nicest Edward I pennies i ever came across; (class 2b being a nice class i find) I personally don't mind the chip on it myself, struck at Bristol in 1280.

I always admired Athenian Democracy, and John Stuart Mill. So by rights i am quite a Liberal, or Libertarian if you prefer.

I disagree, i think in a proper democracy everyone should have the right to say what they want, that is free will and freedom of speech, in a democracy everyone is (or should) be equal to say what they want or choose to say. The vast majority will fall in line of their own accord because of the fear of social disapproval. What i do hate are those (like Mr Blair) that rant on about the importance of democracy and then go about trying to limit people's rights, including their freedom of speech. So i'd ask Mr Blair, is freedom of speech and equal rights only good when it suits him? I don't like racism myself and i think those that are, are bigotted, uneducated morons, plebs if you will. That is my own personal opinion of them, that's my freedom of speech on the matter, as far as i am concerned racists can say what they like, just don't be shocked if i don't have any sympathy for them. As they say democracy truely is an awful system of government cos power can get in the wrong hands, Mr Churchill certainly had a point. But of course i'd be blind to think we live in a true democracy, what we actually live in is a political system of meritocracy with a facade of democracy. Why not just drop the facade it's insulting to us all? Blair pushing 'democracy' on the one hand whilst trying to make everyone carry I.D cards, or go to war against Iraq without the people's consent.

Running CP is a full time job Stu! Wonder, did it take over as your full time job without you noticing?

More eloquently put that my reply Custard. I was in two minds whether or not to edit Master JMD's post there to prevent any offence to anyone, but i realised that i'm not moderating this part of the forum. Plus Master JMD has the right to express his opinion even if i don't agree with it myself. Although reading his post it sounded alot like he'd pasted it straight from one of the aforementioned tabloids.

There are gypsies out there like that for sure, but just as there are gypsies out there with those traits so there are many other people out there that do similarly cruel things for little to no reason, look at these people recently that have been shot and stabbed in the street for no reason. Plus drive by killings. You can't be too careful with anyone these days. And i'm sure not all gypsies are like that, sounds alot like a classic case of scape goating to me, blaming more obvious targets because they don't fit in with society's 'norms'.

Well i'm in a Lib/Lab marginal seat, Cons aren't in the running in my area, so i've decided to play it tactically and hopefully help win the Libs a seat so that it'll weaken Lab.

I've been giving it alot of thought lately, i think i might throw my vote with the Lib Dem. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lib Dems didn't win it this time, it'd be a nice change (how these words will come back to haunt me), i don't think either of the other two main parties are fit to run a country... a long spell out of power for both would do them both good. Parties that have long premierships tend to begin to think they deserve to be there and that everything they do is untouchable. They begin to neglect the public and forget why they are really there, that is to run the country on behalf of the people, not expecting the people to bend to how they think the country should be run. As you can tell i just don't like governments, any of them.

Have some of those been cleaned?

Excellent!

I used to have one of those in BU, infact i sold that to Chris.* *I'm beginning to think there isn't a British coin denomination i haven't sold to Chris at some point or other...

There was some controversy over the image of the queen used, it was thought by some that the coin made the queen look foolish due to having such a ridiculously small crown. As for the Queen herself if she disdn't like it then that's because she was quite vein and was not too impressed that her young head portrait that had been in use since 1838 had been replaced by one which made her look older than 21. Other than that though, the minting authorities paid no attention to any complaints, at least not until 1892 when they started planning the replacement for this design.

Hi JMD I totally understand the coursework! I'm up to my eyes too. If i remember rightly you're doing the copper right? I'm happy for you to continue on in that area at your own pace. As for deadlines, i would like this done for September though, i dunno whether or not i'll be keeping my internet connection or not, hopefully i can persuade my parents to kep it on, but now that i've all but left uni there is no incentive on them to retain it. Hence why i'm trying to sort stuff out whilst i can, as long as i can get all the areas covered and the major issues sorted out, i can then hand it over to Chris to pull it all together. (Most of it is actually together anyhow) I just can't do it on my own that's all, time is running out. I've finished for good after next week which means i have a few weeks of nothingness at my disposal to get this sussed. After that it'll be job seeking time and board paying, end of active coin collecting and maybe end of internet. I really wouldn't want to leave somthing with as much potential as this out in the cold. I don't have the bmc. numbers, Chris might.

Oh and one last thing, unlike the modern coins book this time we actually have the templates done and ready to fill in, so i can email you your blank template and you just fill in the blanks. Then mail it back to either Chris or myself, with this done the description editor's texts can be added, any issues can be brushed out and the main section of the catalogue is done. Price listings come in three parts, Regular issue coinage, proof issue and errors/oddities. So if you're doing Charles II - George II Crowns you'll get three templates, a big one (for normal coins), one half the size (for errors, thanks Bill III) and a diddy one for the proofs.

Well i'm still working on the maundy listings, and a few additional ammendments to the copper to go through. The crowns to sixpences are done and i now need price researchers for these areas; 1) Crowns 2) Halfcrowns 3) Shillings 4) Sixpences 5) Description editor* Anyone willing to step forward to take on price research for one of those areas will be credited in the book as usual. I would do some of it myself, but i'm busy with other work at the moment as well as thinking of brushing up on the introduction stuff, needs a bit of work doing to it. * 'A description editor?' you say, what on earth is one of those? Well as you may realise in coin books at the beginning of the price listings (or in the price listings before each monarch) there is a chunk of text introducing the main themes, types of coinage, explaining the design and any important historical info that might be needed, thinking stuff like the meaning of 'Lima' and 'Vigo' on coins, things to watch out for when grading, rare dates, scarcity of the series and such. Well i've got some preliminary example texts to help you out should you want to take on this challenge. The person that takes on description editor status will have to ensure that they don't plagerise, i will assisst the person doing this should they request any help, but since it's not exactly a small job i think you'd deserve top billing in the crediting. This book is entirely new and taking a 'new' approach i therefore need your help if we're ever going to get it off of the ground, a new part of history, be part of it!

We still use paper and pencil, with a mark going through either a [P] for present or an [A] for absent. If a pupil is late, both [P] and [A] are struck through. It depended upon the teacher with us. Usually the old /\/\/ for present, either 'O' or 'A' for absent and 'L' for late. Having been called upon to do the register myself on the very odd occasion i know how they worked. The teacher must have had some trust!