Diaconis

Could there be a Geordie grading centre, like?

Copy of the Portland vase? reminds me of an old b&w Alfred Hitchcock tv episode, think it was called the Cheney vase or something like that. The moral of which is more valid today, i.e look after the old folks.😉

Maybe the limited mintage issues target specific but smaller markets. This wasn’t meant to appeal to the masses, it doesn’t have to do well, just sell out. There are most definitely people who can appreciate Josiah Wedgwood I’m sure of that. Check out the new World of Wedgewood museum in Barlaston and see his far reaching influence. Can’t see Gruffalo being revered in 250 yrs time but I may be wrong.

The peach of a Chas. II 6d went for £10,000 w/out premium. Good prices at Spink today.

Yes, that 1662 was a gem, though slightly inferior to the Spink plate. When someone dressed in a dinner suit and bow tie starts offering you coins you just know deep down that it will be an expensive evening😂

Off on a slight tangent here but this discussion reminds me of the fascinating but unattributed pattern half-crown of 1651 (ESC 68 (445D) that found the temerity to show its face for the first time in over 300 years in the Jess Peters Fixed Price List of August 1971. Never before mentioned in any reference book nor auction catalogue prior to that date, and though it took a little longer to surface than the base Yorks, of similar dubious origin I suspect.

I agree with you there. I can't see the gap being filled for the 'collector' as an imitation and as you say unless intended to deceive, as new variety being discovered. Would be of interest to see the prices paid for them at that time and if it reflected this.

Besley suggests they may have been made for collectors. I can’t see anyone buying them as York mint issues as they are of dubious origin as stated earlier. There are examples in the BM and Hunterian. They do have a place in the York issue series. Spink lists them as typ.4.

Are they not as 'genuine' as Tanner's copies of Simon's patterns?

it did take some cropping

Heres the one sold at the DNW sale

Rob, What's your view on the anomalous and base York half-crowns?. If standards were subservient to demand then this would support the argument of debasement for an emergency issue (and a secretive one at that given that some contain arsenic as a 'whitener' thereby intending to deceive). Also strange that they seem unknown to Folkes and Snelling yet are common today.

Or an Edward VII, matt proof halfpenny, 1902 for £3k+

i believe it’s called a hamburger

We had an extracurricular stamp club at school, organised by the Geography master. His albums were extraordinary, he painstakingly annotated them in a beautiful gothic script. I developed a passion for penny reds, tuppeny blues and first day covers for years after that. All now relegated to the loft and gathering dust.

Just suppose for a moment that it's fake and the error did not occur at the mint. Someone may have doctored the '8' to look like a '5', that is how it looks to me. If I would want to create another 'full' number out of an existing number I would take the one with the most meat, I think the '8' would be the ideal candidate and a '5' would fit perfectly over the top in a hollow punch. Spink mentions this as 8/5 as being Extremely rare, and conventionally, the first digit predominates over the second. This is a 5/8. Just found the slab photograph at Heritage which looks even more suspect don't you think? It would need RM (not PCGS, sorry PCGS) authentication before I coughed up over $4,000 for it.

Is there another one to compare with? I can imagine if this variety is "Extremely rare" it would be very lucrative to copy, and this one leaves me suspicious to say the least.

looks to me like someone has punched the 8 using a concave tool with a recessed 5. The 5’s are also slightly different. There is also an indentation surrounding the number which looks like the striking tool edge. This wouldn’t be present on an over strike. Be interesting to see what the mint thinks of it.

VickySilver, interesting and worthy of a chapter in itself. Is there an old thread about this anywhere in the annals? Overlapping groups of classification is interesting, is there any form of classification in print, a sort of taxonomy for Patterns?

Point taken Rob and you have considerably more knowledge on the subject of demand and publishing costs than I ever will. Even Eimer must be sitting on a fair few copies of his book judging by the copy number I purchased from him some time ago. Having said that, I’d love to see a modern collective work on patterns and off- metal strikes..

Personally, I think that such a tome would be a very welcome addition to numismatic literature both for collectors and those who have an interest but hesitate to collect due to difficulty in finding information on availability or pricing. The small realm of collecting Commemorative medals is covered by Eimer quite comprehensively, such a guide covering patterns and off-metal strikes would find a market I'm sure. Surely such a book would also generate interest?

I contacted the chap to let him know it was a copy. This is his reply. "No problem and thank you for letting me know at the moment coin is investigated by some specialist from Royal Mint Museum I ask them for help and I wait for respond if they confirm that coin is genuine the price rise up. Thank you one more time and have nice weekend.

There’s enough plastic in the world without shysters like NGC, PCGS, WTFN etc trying to encapsulate every coin that’s ever been made.

or Numistacking

It sure is Peck, I could imagine that’s how a coin would feel when imprisoned inside an NGC slab.💀