muygrandeoso

Hello, Two different, slightly better images. I agree that these differences are small, and I do not claim that they are important, just that they are slightly different. I leave it to smarter folks than I to decide what they mean.

Hi Dave, You are welcome to use the images as you see fit. Chris

To my eye there are at least two date variation for the low tide 1902 with thick and thin numbers, with the biggest difference in the 1 and with the "tail" of the two pointing to a different spot on the teeth...I admit that the differences are small

Hi, You might want to visit http://www.aboutfarthings.co.uk to see the difference between Obv 3 and Obv 5 or you could buy Michael Freeman's "The Bronze Coinage of Great Britain" I use the rose and berries to tell the difference...Young Head has 5 and full rose the Old Head has 4 berries in the wreath and only half of the rose shows. Muygrandeoso

The only one I can recall is Carl Wilhelm Becker, but I think he did mostly Greek and Roman.

Have you weighed it and do you know what a Canadian 5c weighs? I hadn't, it's 4.52g. I have no idea of the weight of a 5c but they look about the same size and shape plus being Cupro-Nickel. I assume mine is Cupro-Nickel. The Canadian 5 cent of 1937 should weigh 4.54 grams, so this coin is in the right range.

Hi Teq, Thanks for the welcome. IMO, the confusion was caused by Peck et al when they called a reverse with beads a "toothed" border, which it clearly is not. Again, I totally agree that the die on the PCGS coin is different from Reverse 1. However, I cannot speak to relative rarity because I am not as well-versed as you on the known populations. If there is general agreement to differentiate between the dies, PCGS is certainly willing to go along with any scheme that eliminates the confusion we have here. It could be as simple as enumerating the die combination (for example, Obv A/Rev 1 or Obv C/Rev 2)...a similar scheme is used on the 1916 20 Hellers of German East Africa (Tanzania). By the way, the examples posted by you and Bob C. appear to be the result of a lapped die, which would explain why the beads are so tiny and why the rocks to the left of the lighthouse are so faint. Is the crack that connects the 6th bead (using your numbers) to Britannia's shield diagnostic for the die? Hello CoinKing, I appreciate your willingness to discuss these matters but, IMHO if PCGS fails to differentiate between broadly accepted varieties (Peck, Freeman, Gouby etc.) and varieties only recognized by PCGS, then the PCGS designation is somewhat de-valued. I realize that this approach has its limits due to the limits of the accepted reference materials, but it seems to me that collectors will be very reluctant to depend on the designations of a slabbing company if they do not have a clear understanding of what those designations mean. Just my opinion, Muygrandeoso

Here are images.

I have examples of both of these. They look like different dies to me.

Here is an image

I have found one in a bit better condition.

Yes, you are right F17 is one of the rarer varieties. I should have looked it up before posting. There does appear to be some dispute however over how rare this variety actually is. Freeman puts it in (his) category R13, whereas Gouby only puts it in (his) rarity category R5. The two scales are not interchangeable, and to put it in some kind of perspective, Freeman reckons it to be as rare as an 1865 over 3, whereas Gouby compares it with an 1871. Nonetheless, it is still a scarce coin and well worth the money that muygrandeoso paid for it. At a quick glance, the attribution to F17 does appear to be correct; a common reverse with an obverse more usually seen on 1861s.

Well said! There are a few of us yanks in the states who collect for the joy, and not as as part of our investment portfolio, and this is why I collect Victorian bronze instead of US coins. Slabbing was the end of collecting in the states, and now it is more about "My slab is better than your slab" Muygrandeoso

Can you explain to me why the F17 appears to be cleaned to you? I appreciate any wisdom I can gather on the subject. Muygrandeoso

Thanks for the help. I got the F17 in a collection I bought on Ebay. I only paid $34USD for the collection, so I think I did alright.