Bhm 1107 George Iv Medal Related To Counterfeit Shilling

[seuk]

The main reason why I enjoy die studying is that it offers a fair chance to discover something new. Here's one such discovery:
BHM 1107 is one of about 10 different medalets issued in commemoration of the coronation of George IV, 1821. Engraver unknown, however he also engraved a series of counterfeit George III shillings of the year 1818.

(Another medalet BHM 1113 (+BHM 1080) is also connected to counterfeit shillings).

[seuk]

Letter punches side by side:


The E punches are especially revealing since there's a tiny damage to the bottom bar

[Coinery]

That is flippin' amazing seuk, what a way to make a relationship between dies! You'll have his name and home soon!

Exciting discovery, you'll have a book soon I hope?

Really inspiring!

Edit: I'm guessing dimensionally, everything ties up?

Edited November 30, 2013 by Coinery

[seuk]

That is flippin' amazing seuk, what a way to make a relationship between dies! You'll have his name and home soon!

Exciting discovery, you'll have a book soon I hope?

Really inspiring!

Edit: I'm guessing dimensionally, everything ties up?

Thanks - I think there's a possibility some day to find out who engraved at least some of the counterfeit dies. Which is not the same as knowing who the actual counterfeiter was. That may prove impossible for the individual dies except for a few rare cases such as the Ingley counterfeit. However knowing the engraver would be a most important part of the whole picture!

A book - that will probably have to wait another ten years or so, unless I get wealthy

[Coinery]

Now I'm a little confused! What's the relationship between the engraver and the counterfeiter, if they are not one and the same?

[Peckris]

Now I'm a little confused! What's the relationship between the engraver and the counterfeiter, if they are not one and the same?

My guess is that an engraver was a middle man 'paid' for his expertise 'no questions asked'. The counterfeiter would then use the die to mint forged coins. It may actually not have been illegal to make the dies, only to use them? (Guessing here).

[seuk]

Now I'm a little confused! What's the relationship between the engraver and the counterfeiter, if they are not one and the same?

My guess is that an engraver was a middle man 'paid' for his expertise 'no questions asked'. The counterfeiter would then use the die to mint forged coins. It may actually not have been illegal to make the dies, only to use them? (Guessing here).

Well - making counterfeit dies (of regal coins) were clearly illegal. But it would have been difficult to prove anything unless the engraver were caught in the act of making them or in the possession thereof.

The whole counterfeiting business seems to have been a loose network of engravers, small workshops (like button makers) and various kinds of distributors. There's a fine article by Lane and Fleig on William Henshall (who produced the first Australian coinage but started out as a counterfeiter) which describes the early 19 Ct. counterfeit industry.