Edward penny

[Woodsman]

Hi folks,

Apologies in advance if what I'm asking is either a)dumb or b)has been asked a million times already! This coin is my first 'hammered' and since buying it I've realised that there is more to this than meets the eye and by all accounts a lot of coins sold via a certain auction site are not what they seem.... As far as I'm aware this is an Edward 1 penny, Durham mint. I've tested it with those wee rare earth magnets and the response suggests that it it silver (def not steel or pewter anyway!). As these seem to be in the more common and less expensive type of hammered coins around, are there many modern fakes of them around and if so, what should I be looking for?

[Coinery]

Hi folks,

Apologies in advance if what I'm asking is either a)dumb or b)has been asked a million times already! This coin is my first 'hammered' and since buying it I've realised that there is more to this than meets the eye and by all accounts a lot of coins sold via a certain auction site are not what they seem.... As far as I'm aware this is an Edward 1 penny, Durham mint. I've tested it with those wee rare earth magnets and the response suggests that it it silver (def not steel or pewter anyway!). As these seem to be in the more common and less expensive type of hammered coins around, are there many modern fakes of them around and if so, what should I be looking for?

The only modern fakes of the Edward pennies that I've seen are not really designed to fool at all. In fact they are much better described as copies, being generally at least 3 times as thick, with an obvious seam around the edge, where the two halves have been bonded together...your's is definitely not one of those!

Also, the magnet test is pretty worthless for separating out pewter, as it doesn't stick to it, at least is doesn't stick to the pewter coins I have.

It's certainly a cross-moline Durham penny, but I'd need to bury my head in the books to tell you more. Which, of course I will if the early hammered gents don't give you the full picture from a quick glance!

[Coinery]

What's the spelling of the second half of Durham? It's probably going to be class 9 or 10 at a guess?

Edit: Sorry, I meant 9, 10, or 11

Edited May 27, 2013 by Coinery

[Woodsman]

What's the spelling of the second half of Durham? It's probably going to be class 9 or 10 at a guess?

Edit: Sorry, I meant 9, 10, or 11

Ok, thanks - good to know about the lack of modern fakes for this! Re the magnet and pewter - you're right of course that pewter isn't magnetic at all. I tried the coin at 45 degree thing and it's amazing the difference - on pewter, the small magnet slides off like the proverbial rat down the aquaduct whereas on silver (some other metals too unfortunately!) the magnet slides down much slower (some sort of temporary effect on certain metals) so while it doesn't confirm silver, it does rule out magnetic metal (ie steel) and completely non magnetic (eg pewter) - works really well on high silver content coins, quite well on this edward penny and not so well on a late roman coin (bought from a reputable supplier) because I think maybe by this stage the romans were scrimping on their silver a bit!

Re the spelling of Durham - unfortunately the edge is quite worn at that point and I can't make it out. Thanks a lot for the help!

[HistoricCoinage]

It looks to be a 10cf - not a 10ab as they have a plain initial cross whereas this has the cross moline.

It certainly looks genuine and, as Stuart says, these are rarely copied well.

[Woodsman]

It looks to be a 10cf - not a 10ab as they have a plain initial cross whereas this has the cross moline.

It certainly looks genuine and, as Stuart says, these are rarely copied well.

Thanks Clive. I read somewhere that the 10cf date around 1309/10? If so, presumably Edward 1 coins were minted for a number of years after his death?

[Woodsman]

It looks to be a 10cf - not a 10ab as they have a plain initial cross whereas this has the cross moline.

It certainly looks genuine and, as Stuart says, these are rarely copied well.

Uh oh, I've just checked out your website too Clive and am now drooling over the keyboard I think I may have to indulge in one or two medievals.....

As an aside, this seems to be a great forum to pick up trustworthy sellers of coins who are genuinely interested in their stock. Just got some small bits from Chris today and he put in more than I ordered because of the cost of postage, that's not something that has happened to me very often! As a newish to buying coins person (who was getting a bit disheartened reading about all the 'chancers' out there), this forum/website is very encouraging so thanks all, take a bow.

[declanwmagee]

It looks to be a 10cf - not a 10ab as they have a plain initial cross whereas this has the cross moline.

It certainly looks genuine and, as Stuart says, these are rarely copied well.

Uh oh, I've just checked out your website too Clive and am now drooling over the keyboard I think I may have to indulge in one or two medievals.....

As an aside, this seems to be a great forum to pick up trustworthy sellers of coins who are genuinely interested in their stock. Just got some small bits from Chris today and he put in more than I ordered because of the cost of postage, that's not something that has happened to me very often! As a newish to buying coins person (who was getting a bit disheartened reading about all the 'chancers' out there), this forum/website is very encouraging so thanks all, take a bow.

Real coinies are generally good sorts, Woodsman! We all trade, to a certain extent, but we're all collectors at heart.

[TomGoodheart]

Modern copies of some series do exist. And though most appear cast, some are quite good and cleverly, not of top end expensive coins that undoubtedly would attract the attention of the more knowledgable collectors, but more modest coins that pass for £20-£40 on ebay.

That said, there are ways of spotting dodgy ones, even if you don't have the coin in the hand to inspect. And you can always ask here for an opinion. Plus the number of genuine coins still vastly outnumbers the copies.

So really, the real difficulty is more the natural variation in hammered coinage where legends were changed, or more commonly, the coin is worn or bits missing making it difficult to nigh-impossible to make out the essential details.

However, that's partly what makes hammered coins such interesting things to collect. And what makes better examples desirable, of course!