ESC vs Davies or Spink? Others

[Gollum]

Hi - I mostly collect 1816-1936 English silver (and silver from that other place that claims to speak English, but I'll keep quiet about that for now...), but to date the only coin reference book I have is the Rotographic one (I have a 2011 copy), much of my other research I've carried out in the internet or the local library.

I almost got the the new Spink book, but then thought that perhaps much of it won't be of relevance to me, though the 2011 copy in the local library does seem to have nice photographs. Also I hear the prices in there are "optimistic" (from a sellers point of view). The new book by Groom - "The Identification of British 20th Century Silver Coin Varieties" looks very good, but of course doesn't cover the 19th century... I've borrowed a copy of Davies - "British Silver Coins" from the library and it definitely covers my period in some detail, but I don't know that I actually *need* all the detailed variety information it gives, the pictures aren't very good and I'm not sure I like the way its organised. Also the prices are of course well out of date, except as relative prices, perhaps.

How does Davies compare to Seaby "English Silver Coinage from 1649" as a book (as opposed to just detail about varieties)? Unfortunately my library doesn't seem to have this, so I've not been able to check it out properly, apart from glancing at it in a coin shop, though the idea of having rarity ratings, rather than actual prices, seems quite a good idea for a reference work. Also I guess I *might* venture pre-1816 at some point...

Ideally I guess I should get both Davies and Seaby, but my collection is not really large enough to justify this (yet...)

Lastly - what's the best price guide book (for prices I would expect to pay a dealer) to complement ESC or Davies- there's Spink, the Rotographic book, the Coin Yearbook, and British Coin Market values. To date I have been using a combination of the Rotographic book, Tony Clayton's website and keeping an eye on prices on dealer's websites and eBay, but some other source would be useful, to avoid paying over the odds for things and to make realistic bids on eBay etc.. Thanks!

I think it is false economy to think small in terms of reference material. Unless you are determined to only collect within a fixed range in perpetuity, having books which only cover the existing collecting criteria means any expansion will result in you having to buy literature which in all probability will also duplicate your current books. An added advantage of having literature outside your current field is that you can do a bit of reading and maybe find that it gives you inspiration to broaden your collection. Very few collections can ever be completed. Currency issues over a narrow range possibly, but beyond that you will in all likelihood struggle to find a few rarities. I can almost guarantee that you will see things outside your current range of 1816-1936 which you find atttractive and wouldn't mind collecting. Post 1816 there are a few killer dates for whichever denomination you choose. For halfcrowns it is the 1839 currency issue, though a decent 1828 will be problematic too. Shillings come unstuck with an 1850, florins with 1854, sixpences you are stuck with the solitary 1847 - so which lucky person is going to be the one that completes the series? For the moment it appears to be quite easy to say that only 1816-1936 are collected, but in time, as it becomes more difficult to fill the gaps, the temptation to diversify gains momentum. View having reference material for both current and potential future collecting periods as a means of problem solving.

I have to say that I was stuck on collecting decimal coinage, primarily because of finances and they are so easy to get, however after a visist from Rob and some other words of wisdom by Peter, I then started to look at other coins of other eras, the truth is I like ALL coins even if I berate French ones as junk !, they still do some nice stuff and will keep them if found. So I am now in a phase where I love the shilling, mainly from Victorias era, but any will do as they are all shillings, I was then sent some coins from George III's reign by forum friends which also got my interest, this has culminated in my having to seek out literature on various types to the point that many may think I am just wandering in the dark or leaping all over the place when I am not, as Rob says, a diversity of literature is a good thing, and if for no other reason I will seek out all manner of reading material even if not in relation to what I like most because it may be that one day I will change focus and then find those books etc I want will then be out of print or also be more expensive at that time. If I had the finances I would in all honesty collect hammered as well, sadly that is not a reality for me at present even if I do like the look of them, but may be in the future as well, I have a thing for druid coins as well, but those I can not find from my armchair, so maybe one day I will have to leave it and face going further afield. I say collect ALL books, and you can also look at it in the light that even if you never use them, they will also become a collectors item or appreciate in value with age.

[Oxford_Collector]

Hi - I mostly collect 1816-1936 English silver (and silver from that other place that claims to speak English, but I'll keep quiet about that for now...), but to date the only coin reference book I have is the Rotographic one (I have a 2011 copy), much of my other research I've carried out in the internet or the local library.

I almost got the the new Spink book, but then thought that perhaps much of it won't be of relevance to me, though the 2011 copy in the local library does seem to have nice photographs. Also I hear the prices in there are "optimistic" (from a sellers point of view). The new book by Groom - "The Identification of British 20th Century Silver Coin Varieties" looks very good, but of course doesn't cover the 19th century... I've borrowed a copy of Davies - "British Silver Coins" from the library and it definitely covers my period in some detail, but I don't know that I actually *need* all the detailed variety information it gives, the pictures aren't very good and I'm not sure I like the way its organised. Also the prices are of course well out of date, except as relative prices, perhaps.

How does Davies compare to Seaby "English Silver Coinage from 1649" as a book (as opposed to just detail about varieties)? Unfortunately my library doesn't seem to have this, so I've not been able to check it out properly, apart from glancing at it in a coin shop, though the idea of having rarity ratings, rather than actual prices, seems quite a good idea for a reference work. Also I guess I *might* venture pre-1816 at some point...

Ideally I guess I should get both Davies and Seaby, but my collection is not really large enough to justify this (yet...)

Lastly - what's the best price guide book (for prices I would expect to pay a dealer) to complement ESC or Davies- there's Spink, the Rotographic book, the Coin Yearbook, and British Coin Market values. To date I have been using a combination of the Rotographic book, Tony Clayton's website and keeping an eye on prices on dealer's websites and eBay, but some other source would be useful, to avoid paying over the odds for things and to make realistic bids on eBay etc.. Thanks!

I think it is false economy to think small in terms of reference material. Unless you are determined to only collect within a fixed range in perpetuity, having books which only cover the existing collecting criteria means any expansion will result in you having to buy literature which in all probability will also duplicate your current books. An added advantage of having literature outside your current field is that you can do a bit of reading and maybe find that it gives you inspiration to broaden your collection. Very few collections can ever be completed. Currency issues over a narrow range possibly, but beyond that you will in all likelihood struggle to find a few rarities. I can almost guarantee that you will see things outside your current range of 1816-1936 which you find atttractive and wouldn't mind collecting. Post 1816 there are a few killer dates for whichever denomination you choose. For halfcrowns it is the 1839 currency issue, though a decent 1828 will be problematic too. Shillings come unstuck with an 1850, florins with 1854, sixpences you are stuck with the solitary 1847 - so which lucky person is going to be the one that completes the series? For the moment it appears to be quite easy to say that only 1816-1936 are collected, but in time, as it becomes more difficult to fill the gaps, the temptation to diversify gains momentum. View having reference material for both current and potential future collecting periods as a means of problem solving.

Yes, I see what you mean - perhaps I should get ESC then, as I can borrow Davies easily enough from the library (for now, anyway), and it might be interesting to find out something about the early milled coinage. The rarity ratings sound useful too.

[coin watch]

Hi - I mostly collect 1816-1936 English silver (and silver from that other place that claims to speak English, but I'll keep quiet about that for now...), but to date the only coin reference book I have is the Rotographic one (I have a 2011 copy), much of my other research I've carried out in the internet or the local library.

I almost got the the new Spink book, but then thought that perhaps much of it won't be of relevance to me, though the 2011 copy in the local library does seem to have nice photographs. Also I hear the prices in there are "optimistic" (from a sellers point of view). The new book by Groom - "The Identification of British 20th Century Silver Coin Varieties" looks very good, but of course doesn't cover the 19th century... I've borrowed a copy of Davies - "British Silver Coins" from the library and it definitely covers my period in some detail, but I don't know that I actually *need* all the detailed variety information it gives, the pictures aren't very good and I'm not sure I like the way its organised. Also the prices are of course well out of date, except as relative prices, perhaps.

How does Davies compare to Seaby "English Silver Coinage from 1649" as a book (as opposed to just detail about varieties)? Unfortunately my library doesn't seem to have this, so I've not been able to check it out properly, apart from glancing at it in a coin shop, though the idea of having rarity ratings, rather than actual prices, seems quite a good idea for a reference work. Also I guess I *might* venture pre-1816 at some point...

Ideally I guess I should get both Davies and Seaby, but my collection is not really large enough to justify this (yet...)

Lastly - what's the best price guide book (for prices I would expect to pay a dealer) to complement ESC or Davies- there's Spink, the Rotographic book, the Coin Yearbook, and British Coin Market values. To date I have been using a combination of the Rotographic book, Tony Clayton's website and keeping an eye on prices on dealer's websites and eBay, but some other source would be useful, to avoid paying over the odds for things and to make realistic bids on eBay etc.. Thanks!

I think it is false economy to think small in terms of reference material. Unless you are determined to only collect within a fixed range in perpetuity, having books which only cover the existing collecting criteria means any expansion will result in you having to buy literature which in all probability will also duplicate your current books. An added advantage of having literature outside your current field is that you can do a bit of reading and maybe find that it gives you inspiration to broaden your collection. Very few collections can ever be completed. Currency issues over a narrow range possibly, but beyond that you will in all likelihood struggle to find a few rarities. I can almost guarantee that you will see things outside your current range of 1816-1936 which you find atttractive and wouldn't mind collecting. Post 1816 there are a few killer dates for whichever denomination you choose. For halfcrowns it is the 1839 currency issue, though a decent 1828 will be problematic too. Shillings come unstuck with an 1850, florins with 1854, sixpences you are stuck with the solitary 1847 - so which lucky person is going to be the one that completes the series? For the moment it appears to be quite easy to say that only 1816-1936 are collected, but in time, as it becomes more difficult to fill the gaps, the temptation to diversify gains momentum. View having reference material for both current and potential future collecting periods as a means of problem solving.

Yes, I see what you mean - perhaps I should get ESC then, as I can borrow Davies easily enough from the library (for now, anyway), and it might be interesting to find out something about the early milled coinage. The rarity ratings sound useful too.

ESC is ok but I think a little dated now. The rarity scale is a fair reflection, though milled is not my thing now, but like the Spink price guide the ESC is only a guide too with regard to rarity, for example a few years back I owned a 1825 shillig with the roman I in date which is classed as an R7 in ESC...hmm R7 states one or two examples but I have seen probably at least a dozen the amount of these in the last decade...so worth thinking on!!

[Oxford_Collector]

Yes, I see what you mean - perhaps I should get ESC then, as I can borrow Davies easily enough from the library (for now, anyway), and it might be interesting to find out something about the early milled coinage. The rarity ratings sound useful too.

ESC is ok but I think a little dated now. The rarity scale is a fair reflection, though milled is not my thing now, but like the Spink price guide the ESC is only a guide too with regard to rarity, for example a few years back I owned a 1825 shillig with the roman I in date which is classed as an R7 in ESC...hmm R7 states one or two examples but I have seen probably at least a dozen the amount of these in the last decade...so worth thinking on!!

Okay, will probably just stick with the Spink 2012 and Coincraft 1999 that I've ordered for now, and will try to "digest" these first. BTW I found the Introduction section of Davies very educational, especially the Historical outline, hope there's more useful background material in Coincraft and Spink, not just coin lists (though they're useful too, of course).

[Peckris]

Yes, I see what you mean - perhaps I should get ESC then, as I can borrow Davies easily enough from the library (for now, anyway), and it might be interesting to find out something about the early milled coinage. The rarity ratings sound useful too.

ESC is ok but I think a little dated now. The rarity scale is a fair reflection, though milled is not my thing now, but like the Spink price guide the ESC is only a guide too with regard to rarity, for example a few years back I owned a 1825 shillig with the roman I in date which is classed as an R7 in ESC...hmm R7 states one or two examples but I have seen probably at least a dozen the amount of these in the last decade...so worth thinking on!!

Okay, will probably just stick with the Spink 2012 and Coincraft 1999 that I've ordered for now, and will try to "digest" these first. BTW I found the Introduction section of Davies very educational, especially the Historical outline, hope there's more useful background material in Coincraft and Spink, not just coin lists (though they're useful too, of course).

Whatever else you think of Coincraft or their catalogue, there is a phenomenal amount of useful background information in there. Not just good articles as appendices, but in the introduction to each denomination and reign. It has the added bonus of recommending what grades are best collected in each series. It's a mineshaft of information.

[Gollum]

Yes, I see what you mean - perhaps I should get ESC then, as I can borrow Davies easily enough from the library (for now, anyway), and it might be interesting to find out something about the early milled coinage. The rarity ratings sound useful too.

ESC is ok but I think a little dated now. The rarity scale is a fair reflection, though milled is not my thing now, but like the Spink price guide the ESC is only a guide too with regard to rarity, for example a few years back I owned a 1825 shillig with the roman I in date which is classed as an R7 in ESC...hmm R7 states one or two examples but I have seen probably at least a dozen the amount of these in the last decade...so worth thinking on!!

Okay, will probably just stick with the Spink 2012 and Coincraft 1999 that I've ordered for now, and will try to "digest" these first. BTW I found the Introduction section of Davies very educational, especially the Historical outline, hope there's more useful background material in Coincraft and Spink, not just coin lists (though they're useful too, of course).

Whatever else you think of Coincraft or their catalogue, there is a phenomenal amount of useful background information in there. Not just good articles as appendices, but in the introduction to each denomination and reign. It has the added bonus of recommending what grades are best collected in each series. It's a mineshaft of information.

But which copy of coincraft is best, the latest ( 2000 ) or previous ones, not all newer versions of something are better than the past ones.

[Oxford_Collector]

Yes, I see what you mean - perhaps I should get ESC then, as I can borrow Davies easily enough from the library (for now, anyway), and it might be interesting to find out something about the early milled coinage. The rarity ratings sound useful too.

ESC is ok but I think a little dated now. The rarity scale is a fair reflection, though milled is not my thing now, but like the Spink price guide the ESC is only a guide too with regard to rarity, for example a few years back I owned a 1825 shillig with the roman I in date which is classed as an R7 in ESC...hmm R7 states one or two examples but I have seen probably at least a dozen the amount of these in the last decade...so worth thinking on!!

Okay, will probably just stick with the Spink 2012 and Coincraft 1999 that I've ordered for now, and will try to "digest" these first. BTW I found the Introduction section of Davies very educational, especially the Historical outline, hope there's more useful background material in Coincraft and Spink, not just coin lists (though they're useful too, of course).

Whatever else you think of Coincraft or their catalogue, there is a phenomenal amount of useful background information in there. Not just good articles as appendices, but in the introduction to each denomination and reign. It has the added bonus of recommending what grades are best collected in each series. It's a mineshaft of information.

But which copy of coincraft is best, the latest ( 2000 ) or previous ones, not all newer versions of something are better than the past ones.

I'd read it got a lot better from 1998 onwards, better drawings and photographs and more info.

[Peckris]

Yes, I see what you mean - perhaps I should get ESC then, as I can borrow Davies easily enough from the library (for now, anyway), and it might be interesting to find out something about the early milled coinage. The rarity ratings sound useful too.

ESC is ok but I think a little dated now. The rarity scale is a fair reflection, though milled is not my thing now, but like the Spink price guide the ESC is only a guide too with regard to rarity, for example a few years back I owned a 1825 shillig with the roman I in date which is classed as an R7 in ESC...hmm R7 states one or two examples but I have seen probably at least a dozen the amount of these in the last decade...so worth thinking on!!

Okay, will probably just stick with the Spink 2012 and Coincraft 1999 that I've ordered for now, and will try to "digest" these first. BTW I found the Introduction section of Davies very educational, especially the Historical outline, hope there's more useful background material in Coincraft and Spink, not just coin lists (though they're useful too, of course).

Whatever else you think of Coincraft or their catalogue, there is a phenomenal amount of useful background information in there. Not just good articles as appendices, but in the introduction to each denomination and reign. It has the added bonus of recommending what grades are best collected in each series. It's a mineshaft of information.

But which copy of coincraft is best, the latest ( 2000 ) or previous ones, not all newer versions of something are better than the past ones.

They're all good. More varieties got added after the first, and people corrected a few things they got wrong, so I'd say any issue from 1998 onwards would be good. It's a shame but I had both the 1997 and 1998 issues and gave the 1997 edition to a jumble sale a few years back, before I even joined this forum.

[Oxford_Collector]

BTW have now received both Spink 2012 and the Coincraft book from 1999. I have to say the Coincraft book is fantastic for a relative beginner like myself, has some really useful information about collecting coins in general and history and collecting notes for each coin series. Also, looking through both of these books has indeed tweaked my interest in coin outside my existing 1816-1936 comfort zone, not so much the hammered stuff, but the early milled coinage... Some of those early shillings look interesting

Edited January 27, 2012 by Oxford_Collector

[Peckris]

BTW have now received both Spink 2012 and the Coincraft book from 1999. I have to say the Coincraft book is fantastic for a relative beginner like myself, has some really useful information about collecting coins in general and history and collecting notes for each coin series. Also, looking through both of these books has indeed tweaked my interest in coin outside my existing 1816-1936 comfort zone, not so much the hammered stuff, but the early milled coinage... Some of those early shillings look interesting

I've never regretted my early milled purchases, and my regret is not filling in many type gaps earlier when they were cheaper and I had money To me, their only downside is in the lack of variety of reverse designs. For a hundred years or more, all you got from crown down to sixpence was the quartered arms in shields (ok, there were roses and plumes and stuff like that, but you know what I mean); and on the coppers, just the same louche Britannia. Having said that, we didn't get rid of Britannia on all base metal coins until 1937.

[TomGoodheart]

Even I, with my like for hammered coins, enjoy early hammered. There's a lot of character in those early shillings of Charles and James and even the Georges, that I find lacking after the end of the 1700s.

I'm sort of sorry I got rid of mine. Apart from the fact that the money I got for them bought more coins for my collection.

[Oxford_Collector]

Even I, with my like for hammered coins, enjoy early hammered.

DO you mean early milled? ;-)

There's a lot of character in those early shillings of Charles and James and even the Georges, that I find lacking after the end of the 1700s.

I'm sort of sorry I got rid of mine. Apart from the fact that the money I got for them bought more coins for my collection.