Coin varieties

[bob.phillips]

I recently purchased a 1839 farthing and noticed that it has a full stop after DEF rather than a colon. This is not listed in 'Collectors Coins GB' 2011, though I see that such a variety is listed for the 1838 farthing.

Is this a known variety for 1839 farthing and does it have a higher value?

On the same theme of varieties, I also have a 1818 L1X crown where the A of TUTAMEN is missing the central horizontal bar and is like an upside down V. Is this a known variety?

Any views would be appreciated.

Bob Phillips

[Rob]

I recently purchased a 1839 farthing and noticed that it has a full stop after DEF rather than a colon. This is not listed in 'Collectors Coins GB' 2011, though I see that such a variety is listed for the 1838 farthing.

Is this a known variety for 1839 farthing and does it have a higher value?

On the same theme of varieties, I also have a 1818 L1X crown where the A of TUTAMEN is missing the central horizontal bar and is like an upside down V. Is this a known variety?

Any views would be appreciated.

Bob Phillips

There might be a small premium to book for some varieties, but on the whole there are so many micro-varieites that it is really only the preserve of the specialist die student. Missing stops or bars in the legend are frequently down to die fill, and so unless it can be shown that the missing feature was on the die in the first place, it isn't really a significant variety. Conversely, where you have say an A for a V or one letter struck over another different character is important because there is added detail which can only be due to either an incorrect character or a die flaw. Flaws have irregular edges and so it is possible to discriminate between the two.

Personally, I take the view that varieties should have been on the original die and should not be the result of wear and tear. However, not all will agree with me.

[bob.phillips]

Rob,

Thanks for the prompt response and I can see your point of view. If there is not a 'bump' where there should be a 'bump', it could be due to die fill. But clearly some of these types are considered significant enough to merit separate listings in coin books. The 1819 LX Crown without a stop after TUTAMEN is but one example. You did say in your response that these could be seen as significant if one could show that the error was on an original die. Is there any way of finding this out? ( Maybe thats a stupid question !!! ).

I would like to hear more views on these varieties if anyone has any

[Red Riley]

Rob,

Thanks for the prompt response and I can see your point of view. If there is not a 'bump' where there should be a 'bump', it could be due to die fill. But clearly some of these types are considered significant enough to merit separate listings in coin books. The 1819 LX Crown without a stop after TUTAMEN is but one example. You did say in your response that these could be seen as significant if one could show that the error was on an original die. Is there any way of finding this out? ( Maybe thats a stupid question !!! ).

I would like to hear more views on these varieties if anyone has any

The missing stops can often be seen under a microscope. Going a bit far in my opinion, but each to their own.

[Colin G.]

Hi,

I am at the other end of the spectrum when it comes to "micro varieties", and it can be possible with study to put the dies into some form of sequence when looking at the varying combinations. As Rob says the problem comes when trying to determine what are progressive die features, and what are features that have been copied over multiple dies from the "master die" or "hub"

Do these varieties add value to a coin? Well if it a type I have noy test studied or in which I am trying to find a better example then yes I will certainly pay a premium, but in many cases it will be a fairly marginal premium until/unless a variety becomes "collected".

It is only when an established set of varieties become known and collected that any real attempt at rarity can be allocated and therefore a value will inevitably follow if the series becomes collected. You only have to look at Gouby and the bronze penny series to see this situation unfolding.

It is true it will not appeal to every collector, but it does to me

As for the 1839 farthings, they are probably a very good example to use, these can normally be allocated to one of four types, which it would seem show progressive breakdown of a master reverse die to some extent rather than individual die errors. There are no progressive stages between to indicate individual die flaws evolving.

http://www.aboutfarthings.co.uk/Farthing%20-%201839.html

I know I need to get out more

[bob.phillips]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the most helpful response. Your farthing site is great. Good to see that these types of coin varieties are of interest to others. From the pictures on your site, I believe that my coin is Obv 2, Rev 2.

Thanks again,

Bob

[unc]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the most helpful response. Your farthing site is great. Good to see that these types of coin varieties are of interest to others. From the pictures on your site, I believe that my coin is Obv 2, Rev 2.

Thanks again,

Bob

Interesting post about 1839 farthings.

This one has a nice example of a die flaw to the reverse. Nice powdery surfaces otherwise (ignoring the ek).

Alex.

[unc]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the most helpful response. Your farthing site is great. Good to see that these types of coin varieties are of interest to others. From the pictures on your site, I believe that my coin is Obv 2, Rev 2.

Thanks again,

Bob

Interesting post about 1839 farthings.

This one has a nice example of a die flaw to the reverse. Nice powdery surfaces otherwise (ignoring the ek).

Alex.

And the reverse.

[Colin G.]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the most helpful response. Your farthing site is great. Good to see that these types of coin varieties are of interest to others. From the pictures on your site, I believe that my coin is Obv 2, Rev 2.

Thanks again,

Bob

Interesting post about 1839 farthings.

This one has a nice example of a die flaw to the reverse. Nice powdery surfaces otherwise (ignoring the ek).

Alex.

And the reverse.

Shame about the edge knock, otherwise it does have great eye appeal. The die crack through BRITANNIAR is quite a long one!!

[unc]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the most helpful response. Your farthing site is great. Good to see that these types of coin varieties are of interest to others. From the pictures on your site, I believe that my coin is Obv 2, Rev 2.

Thanks again,

Bob

Interesting post about 1839 farthings.

This one has a nice example of a die flaw to the reverse. Nice powdery surfaces otherwise (ignoring the ek).

Alex.

And the reverse.

Shame about the edge knock, otherwise it does have great eye appeal. The die crack through BRITANNIAR is quite a long one!!

Yes that flaw is massive. One of my favourite coins that, despite the ek.

Cheers.

[jaden]

A variety is just something on the die that makes the coin different than coins struck with other dies. It can be as simple as change in mint mark styles or a redesigned master die to improve the design elements of a coin.

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