James VI Silver Thirty Shillings, Ryal or Sword Dollar

[Guest jrv901]

I have in my possession a James VI Silver Thirty Shillings, I've been searching the internet for a valuation but haven't had any success so far and I would appreciate it if anyone could give me an idea.

There is a possibility that I may sell it so any offers are welcome also.

My great grandfather paid £200 for this coin around 50 years ago and it has been in my family since then. It is dated 1571 and is in very good condition considering its age.

I have uploaded high-quality images to the links below as they exceeded the maximum file upload size, all helpfull coments are appreciated, Thanks.

Photos of the coin are available here

Edited July 23, 2009 by jrv901

[Chris Perkins]

In my 2002 Coins of Scotland, Ireland and the Islands book it says £250 Fine and £575 VF......Actually, looking again, it's £235 Fine and £525 VF because it has the revaluation stamp of 1578.

You can't really call it VF (usually you never can with hammered!) and it does have some flan cracks. To be honest, even though I am no Scottish expert, I would tip that your grandfather had paid too much 50 years ago and that the value today is not much higher, perhaps even the same.

What say thee 'Scottishmoney'? (a member here)

[Rob]

I have in my possession a James VI Silver Thirty Shillings, I've been searching the internet for a valuation but haven't had any success so far and I would appreciate it if anyone could give me an idea.

There is a possibility that I may sell it so any offers are welcome also.

My great grandfather paid £200 for this coin around 50 years ago and it has been in my family since then. It is dated 1571 and is in very good condition considering its age.

I have uploaded high-quality images to the links below as they exceeded the maximum file upload size, all helpfull coments are appreciated, Thanks.

Photos of the coin are available here

First of all it started life as a 30s ryal, but was revalued in 1578 to 36s.9d (that's what the countermark means).

Prices on Scottish coinage are not particularly well documented and so the best indicator would be to have a look at past auction prices. The last Scottish price book from Spink came out in 2003 and priced this coin at £235 in fine and £525 in very fine. I would grade your coin at better than VF and closer to gVF, but the striking split is a slight problem. Recent strength in prices means it should be worth more than the VF price. Perhaps Scottishmoney can help as that is more his scene.

As an indicator the 1984 Seaby price guide gave £85 in fine and £400 in very fine. However, looking at a 50 year old auction catalogue - Glendining 18/6/1959, a job lot of three Scottish ryals comprising 1566, 1567 and 1571 (the last two countermarked with a thistle) and all in very fine grade sold for £16 hammer. This is wildly different to £200, so it might be worth checking the acquisition dates as the sums don't add up.

[Chris Perkins]

You think it's better than VF? I'm no hammered expert, but I would have thought it too worn.....willing to learn though.

[Rob]

You think it's better than VF? I'm no hammered expert, but I would have thought it too worn.....willing to learn though.

It's a difficult one. There is possibly some porosity on one side opposite the split, but quite a lot of it is well struck. Grading hammered is always a bit hit and miss if not in the hand. The detail on the crown and elsewhere is quite good. £200 50 years ago is too much though.

[Chris Perkins]

Yes, you're right. £200 was an awful lot of money 50 years ago (when a new large saloon Austin A55 was £685... in 1958).

[Rob]

Yes, you're right. £200 was an awful lot of money 50 years ago (when a new large saloon Austin A55 was £685... in 1958).

It is when the best known Charles II 3rd issue shilling sold for £56 in Lockett II (1956) compared to a complete denomination run of the issue for £17 in around the EF mark. Particularly as the 1/- needed an A4 sized ticket to write out the provenance!

[scottishmoney]

As others prior to my entrance have occasioned, this particular piece is rather rough on the obverse(face) of the coin, the flan cracks and porosity are a bit of a turn off. Most of the Ryals from the 1566-1572 era were called in and counterstamped with the thistle to raise the value of the coin from 30/- to 36/9 in 1578, effectively realising that again inflation had once again eroded Scottish sterling.

I suspect that your grandfather paid rather too much dosh for said piece if indeed it was purchased 50+ years ago, it's value now is subjective as others have pointed out. The catalogues for Scottish coinage are becoming rather dated and have never been in touch with reality pricewise. Choice, problem free material on the auction circuit advances considerably in price, and I myself have paid significantly more than a catalogue price for choice materiel, but most Scottish materiel circulated a long time and is not choice by any stretch.

This piece appears to be in no better than a fine grade by my estimation, indeed it is worth a bit more than what was paid years ago, but only about 300-350 Quid or so.

[Guest jrv901]

As others prior to my entrance have occasioned, this particular piece is rather rough on the obverse(face) of the coin, the flan cracks and porosity are a bit of a turn off. Most of the Ryals from the 1566-1572 era were called in and counterstamped with the thistle to raise the value of the coin from 30/- to 36/9 in 1578, effectively realising that again inflation had once again eroded Scottish sterling.

I suspect that your grandfather paid rather too much dosh for said piece if indeed it was purchased 50+ years ago, it's value now is subjective as others have pointed out. The catalogues for Scottish coinage are becoming rather dated and have never been in touch with reality pricewise. Choice, problem free material on the auction circuit advances considerably in price, and I myself have paid significantly more than a catalogue price for choice materiel, but most Scottish materiel circulated a long time and is not choice by any stretch.

This piece appears to be in no better than a fine grade by my estimation, indeed it is worth a bit more than what was paid years ago, but only about 300-350 Quid or so.

Hi, after reading you comments on the original price paid for the coin i revisitted the notes that accompany it and discovered that £200 was the amount it was considered to be worth after being valued in 1986 rather than the price that was paid initially. Thankyou all for your comments, I appreciate your help and I think that I will be hanging onto it for the sentimental value. Who knows, maybe my grandson will be trying to flog it someday.