!858 Penny - A bit large over small date?

[Stechlin]

Hi

What do you think of this 1858 Penny? – In general it is an OT, far colon variety with no w.w. on truncation, so the most common 1858 Penny.

But if you look at the “1†in the date, it seems to be a large “1†over a small “1â€. I’m not sure about the first “8†the picture is a bit unsharp in this region. The “5†looks to me like a kind of an overstruck too, look at the left side of the upper region of the “5†and at the northeastern line ending earlier (I hope you know what I mean). The second “8†seems regular to me.

Looking at Chris catalogue and Peck I think it is of course nor the P1517 (smaller date) neither the P1518 (large date). But in the end it also doesn’t look like a complete large date over small date which is listed in Chris catalogue.

Holger

[RLC35]

Holger,

Here is an uncirculated 1858 just like yours. The is a definate left extension below the top of the one (1), and a recut (doubled) eight (8), with slightly recut five (5) and last eight (8). There is a third photo I will send on the next reply.

Regards,

Bob C.

[RLC35]

Here is the recut 5 and second 8.

Bob C.

[Chingford]

Have a look on Michaels coins, all images of 1858 penny varieties we have seen to date are posted there,

about 8 in total from memory, mostly Michaels work, including numbers over numbers, spacing and colons.

http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/

With the 58 being at the end of the series, the probablity was that all the old servicable dies were being used

up, hence recording of more overdates using possibly 52, 53 and definately the 56 and 57 dies.

Not recorded on the site is the 'fabled' 1858 'Large Rose' reverse (shown below).

John

[Stechlin]

Hi Bob, Hi John

Thank you very much and sorry for my late answer. Amazing that Bob owns exactely this "variety". Thanks for the great pictures. I had a look at Michael Goubys website (should have done before posting) and indeed this variety is listed under the name: "CP 1858 Ha".

John, your explanation for the lots over recuts/overstrikes in the year 1858 is very interesting. But using old dies to finish that year instead of creating expensive new ones would mean, that the decision to change from Copper to Bronze has already been made at that time, wouldn't it? Or did I misunderstand you? Only a few thousand of 1858 Pennies had to been made at the end of the year, so old dies have been used to finish this year of mintage. Something like that?

Of course I at once had a look at my 1858 Pennies to find the "Large Rose" and of course I didn't find one

S.y.s.

Holger