Henry III Penny - what Class?

[Stechlin]

Actually I'm a collector of Pennies from 1797 to 1967, but I own a few silver pennies.

I tried to identify one of them tonight. I think, I'm close to the answer, but I'm not sure. As far as I can see, it's a Henry III longcross Penny, and I think it should be Class Va or Vb. Referring to Spink (Numbers 1367 and 1368) the differences between those two is, that the Class Vb Penny has a narrower face, a wedge tailed R (instead of a Ball-tailed R) and round eyes. Well, in lack of comparison I can`t say, whether the face is narrower or not, I don't have any idea, what a wedge-tail R or a Ball-tailed R is and: round eyes instead of what? - I posted two pictures of the obverse of that coin. Perhaps you will laugh, when you see, how I try to identify my coin. But as a amateur in that discipline, it is helpfull. - Perhaps somebody can help me.

Holger

[Stechlin]

Actually I'm a collector of Pennies from 1797 to 1967, but I own a few silver pennies.

I tried to identify one of them tonight. I think, I'm close to the answer, but I'm not sure. As far as I can see, it's a Henry III longcross Penny, and I think it should be Class Va or Vb. Referring to Spink (Numbers 1367 and 1368) the differences between those two is, that the Class Vb Penny has a narrower face, a wedge tailed R (instead of a Ball-tailed R) and round eyes. Well, in lack of comparison I can`t say, whether the face is narrower or not, I don't have any idea, what a wedge-tail R or a Ball-tailed R is and: round eyes instead of what? - I posted two pictures of the obverse of that coin. Perhaps you will laugh, when you see, how I try to identify my coin. But as a amateur in that discipline, it is helpfull. - Perhaps somebody can help me.

Holger

Obviously I had a problem posting the second picture. Here it is. Perhaps I should have posted the reverse of the coin, but I don't want to reply a second time to my own posting. Referring to the pictures in "Coincraft's 1997" it should be a coin from the London Mint.

[Geordie582]

It's a poser! The only difference Coincraft shows between 5A & 5B are a filled in eye!!! The text claims that 5B has a narrower face but, even with a ruler, their examples are identical. Your coin shows the 'filled-in' eye but that may be wear. However Spinks seperates the two with A having a ball tail to the R and B having a wedge tail. On this division, your coin appears to be the latter, 5B. You pays your money and takes your choice! So I doubt you will ever be absolutely certain!

Edited March 4, 2008 by Geordie582

[TomGoodheart]

What fun it is collecting hammered! I have to say in such matters I tend to depend on others to do the work! I try to find somewhere that has plenty of examples and then start to compare - in this case I tried Antony Wilson's rather good site - http://www.yorkcoins.com/voided_long_cross_pennies_i.htm

On page 4 VLC77 appears to shows a 'ball tailed' R quite nicely. But as for round eyes ... they all look the same to me!

[Geordie582]

Idon't think that's any where near Tom! The face is round and there is no III in the legend. And so it goes on!

[HistoricCoinage]

Holger,

I'd like to be a bit of a psychic here, I'm guessing that you have a Class 3b penny, Iordan on Winchester...

Let me know if I'm right, if it helps, you bought it on the 11th November by my estimation.

Clive.

[Stechlin]

Holger,

I'd like to be a bit of a psychic here, I'm guessing that you have a Class 3b penny, Iordan on Winchester...

Let me know if I'm right, if it helps, you bought it on the 11th November by my estimation.

Clive.

Right you are! I`ve just checked this. How small the world is. But it is not the coin, we are talking about. Perhaps you can help me.

[Stechlin]

What fun it is collecting hammered! I have to say in such matters I tend to depend on others to do the work! I try to find somewhere that has plenty of examples and then start to compare - in this case I tried Antony Wilson's rather good site - http://www.yorkcoins.com/voided_long_cross_pennies_i.htm

On page 4 VLC77 appears to shows a 'ball tailed' R quite nicely. But as for round eyes ... they all look the same to me!

Thank you very much for the link. I thought, that now it should be possible to identify the coin exactely, but this is not the case. I'm afraid, Geordie is right, that it can' t be VLC 77. I think VLC 161 (on page 9) and VLC 304 (on page 13) are quite similar. I think, I give up. "What fun it is collecting hammered". Yes, I think, one has to be very patient person!

[Stechlin]

Idon't think that's any where near Tom! The face is round and there is no III in the legend. And so it goes on!

I think, you are right, look at my reply to Tom. By the way: I like your motto. Do you know that link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum ?

[HistoricCoinage]

Holger,

I sold you that Winchester coin by the way!

Sorry, I can't offer any more assistance on this coin at the moment but will ask on of my friends for you. I should reply by tomorrow evening.

Regards,

Clive.

[Geordie582]

I did know of the other variations in the saying, Stechlin, but the one I use used to be added to the bottom of exam answers in the RAF (providing that you could rely on the humour of the examiner!!!)

[TomGoodheart]

I wasn't suggesting it was the same coin as VLC 77 guys, just that that example showed the 'ball ended R' clearly. You see, this is why I stick to shillings! For a start the design is bigger and variations between different groups and varieties are generally more obvious. None of those different moneyers to worry about either! Not that I can't see the appeal of pennies of course. I did wonder about a small collection of Cnuts at one stage - til budgetry considerations came into the equation at least!

And you're right about the patience S - pretty much essential for this sort of thing! That and a good memory for detail!