Machin Obverse Experiment...

[Sylvester]

For the past three years i've been hoarding every machin head 2p and penny that i came across in circulation. (except those that are really mangled, or really really bad), as estimations go i must have rejected at least 100 2ps and 100 1ps.

All the rest i kept.

Now here's the startling results of this ongoing experiment...

date/number recovered

1p's

1971 = 67

1973 = 16

1974 = 18

1975 = 12

1976 = 11

1977 = 16

1978 = 20

1979 = 39

1980 = 19

1981 = 20

1982 = 7

1983 = 16

1984 = 25

2p's

1971 = 179 (any surprise?)

1975 = 29

1976 = 4 (and all of them are in horrible condition)

1977 = 18

1978 = 24

1979 =34

1980 =50

1981 = 43

Anyone else shocked by how few there are there, i mean that's not alot in three years is it?

The two pences are also more common.

[william]

That's three years of doing it?! You should have got lots more, I reckon. Here's what I have at the moment in my wallet (not that I collect them!):

NO TWO PENCE COINS!!!

1 pence pieces:

1971 x 3

1973 x 1

1979 x 1

1980 x 1

1984 x 1

I don't have many either!! And that's from a few weeks ago

[Sylvester]

That's three years of doing it?! You should have got lots more, I reckon.

i know my feelings entirely, i thought they were getting scarcer that's why i started this hoarding to see.

Now comparing how many 2002 and 2003 pennies and 2p's i pulled out in just a few months there was a major difference, the newer ones are much more common.

My theory is, firstly the copper prices have been going up lately (they have), secondly the 2003 mintage of the low denominations was phenominal, i haven't got any mintage figures yet, but i can say i've never seen so many.

My hunch is someone somewhere is removing the older coins as intrinsically they are worth more, it doesn't just go for the machin's either, it also counts for Maklouf's upto 1991... the bronze ones are getting thinner on the ground than the steel ones.

I think the machins will be the first to go because they are much more obvious than the Maklouf's, as the latter you'd have to check the date of them.

[Half Penny Jon]

Maybe the royal mint is trying to take out the old ones and bring in newer ones? If this is true then I might start hoarding.

[Sylvester]

Maybe the royal mint is trying to take out the old ones and bring in newer ones? If this is true then I might start hoarding.

if to copper prices goes up too high what it would mean is that the old ones would be worth more intrinsically than their face value, which means you could make a profit from selling them to scrap merchants.

Quite alot of collectors on the US/Canada border are hording Canadian Cents with the same intention.

With regards to the bronze coins it's either collectors hording them, or the mint is removing them. How many collectors would hoard battered coins that were minted in the millions? (or billions?)

I did it for the simple end in mind of seeing how common they are. When i've done i'll probably dump aload of them back into circulation.

But i'd hang onto the 1976 twopences and the 1982 pennies, both are scarcer than catalogues suggest. My i've even got more 1992 'scarce' die variety ten pences than 1976 two pences, same goes for 1988 £1 coins.

[Emperor Oli]

Wouldn't the scrap merchant be breaking the law? I heard that it was illegal to melt down coins - maybe I'm wrong...

[Chris Perkins]

It could just be because banks take in the older manky coins, and many of the older coins are, well probably manky.

They probably do melt the bronze down, make a small profit and then replace it with a steel one. But surely the actual cost of making the stell replacement would probably be more than the bronze value of the older one.

I think you get 70p per kilo of Bronze, how many 2p's in a kilo?

[Sylvester]

Alright it's some way off of a profit for bronze coins then, you'd need £2.80 odd of them for a kilo.

[Half Penny Jon]

Crikey, that is a long way off.

[kuhli]

date/number recovered

1p's

1971 = 67

1973 = 16

1974 = 18

1975 = 12

1976 = 11

1977 = 16

1978 = 20

1979 = 39

1980 = 19

1981 = 20

1982 = 7

1983 = 16

1984 = 25

2p's

1971 = 179 (any surprise?)

1975 = 29

1976 = 4 (and all of them are in horrible condition)

1977 = 18

1978 = 24

1979 =34

1980 =50

1981 = 43

Anyone else shocked by how few there are there, i mean that's not alot in three years is it?

The two pences are also more common.

Sylvester,

Amazingly, my numbers for most years are quite similar to yours, even on this side of the pond. This is what I have:

1971=180

1973=27

1974=14

1975=22

1976=23

1977=12

1978=27

1979=40

1980=29

1981=17

1982=6

1983=3

1984=23

Mind you, probably 3-5% of these are uglies that can't be saved for anything short of the furnace.

I have only 86 of the Machin 2p. From what I have seen, they are not as plentiful over here, as compared to the 1p.

By the way, you mention the hoarding of Canadian cents, they went to copper plated zinc in 1997, and have been phasing in copper plated steel over the last 3 years.

If/when copper does get up there a little, I have about 4000-5000 Canadian cents, plus the above British, and will be the first in line at the scrap merchants. I wonder what they give for Churchills???

[mint_mark]

If/when copper does get up there a little, I have about 4000-5000 Canadian cents, plus the above British, and will be the first in line at the scrap merchants.  I wonder what they give for Churchills???

Oh no I can see it now... in the future the Royal Mint will release their latest weekly commemorative coin (10000th episode of EastEnders) in platinum, gold, sterling silver and for the first time, the comforting warmth of real copper... just £5.99 in a presentation folder, and also included in the deluxe "History of Copper Coins" boxed set, including a genuine British solid copper coin that has actually been used by real Victorians!

[Sylvester]

Oh no I can see it now... in the future the Royal Mint will release their latest weekly commemorative coin (10000th episode of EastEnders) in platinum, gold, sterling silver and for the first time, the comforting warmth of real copper... just £5.99 in a presentation folder, and also included in the deluxe "History of Copper Coins" boxed set, including a genuine British solid copper coin that has actually been used by real Victorians!

Laugh if you will mintmark, but i think it's coming to something when copper's too expensive to make low denomination coins out of, don't you?

[mint_mark]

Laugh if you will mintmark, but i think it's coming to something when copper's too expensive to make low denomination coins out of, don't you? 

Well, yes, but what surprises me is that something like stainless steel, with all the technology that goes into it, specially treated to make it non-magnetic, and then plated or clad with another metal, actually works out cheaper!

I think it's Finland who have decided to not bother making 1 and 2 cent coins... maybe we should do the same. Or just have aluminium... it can be done tastefully

[Sylvester]

i thought steel would be more expensive too, but i guess they're shipping it in cheap from abroad.

[mint_mark]

i thought steel would be more expensive too, but i guess they're shipping it in cheap from abroad.

Supply and demand isn't it.... we started using copper for coins before we needed it for electrical wires and heating pipes.

Similarly, they used to make fake sovereigns out of platinum because it was worth less... how things change!

[Emperor Oli]

Steel prices are increasing(my dad works as a director at a steel company) because demand from China is rising steadily.

[Sylvester]

Steel prices are increasing(my dad works as a director at a steel company) because demand from China is rising steadily.

look out world aluminium is on the way...