henry 1st moneyers

[tazdog]

hi just wondering if any of you could help me ? i have a coin of henry 1st and im trying to work out who the moneyer is as i cannot seem to find the name anywhere, it reads 'PILDE ON CANT' or thats what it looks like, it has 5 annulets and 4 piles and i believe the front reads 'HENRIC REX' .

any info would be great, thanks

[Geordie582]

A picture is essential here. To show the problem;-

Henry I moneyers used either C, CA(T)N or CANTLE.

Stephen used CANT but also his own name on the obverse (or one of the barons)

Henry II used CANTO on the Tealby issues. (no Canterbury coins were issued of the short cross issue)

Richard & John both used their fathers name, HENRICVS, on the obverse of their coins and CANT on the reverse but, the moneyer you quote does not appear in the known list.

Henry III ,again, although CANT is used, does not have the moneyer listed.

So you see the problem - unless you've found an unlisted issue!

[scottishmoney]

One real problem with many available Henry I coins is that they are often rather crudely struck, though notably better than the further deteriorated pieces of Stephen. So legends etc. are often blundered, coins struck off of centre, and weakly. I have a Henry I cut farthing that came in a larger hoard of cuts, that is remarkably well struck with all legend, well what is on the small piece, clear. Too bad it got cut up.

[Geordie582]

I've never understood why Coincraft publish great lists of moneyers for Henry II Short Cross coinage and after, but only mints before that. The moneyers would be adding their names to the reverses, so why no record?

[tazdog]

i have done my best to try and show the coin but had to shrink it hope this helps,

[Geordie582]

Wow! Great coin. As far as I have been able to decipher

Annulet & Piles issue 1104-1105

PILDE ON T(?)ANT(?)V(inverted). The question marks are because I think the 'T's are retrograde and a guess.

If I'm right this puts it as Taunton mint.

Over to you YOC?

Edited November 16, 2007 by Geordie582

[HistoricCoinage]

haven't been on here in yoinks! Been spending my time on CoinPeople and CoinsGB.

Tazdog, if you want you can send some large scans to historiccoinage@coinpeople.com and I will do my best.

I recently discovered a new moneyer for Henry I on one of my pennies so I should be able to help, if not I know people who can.

I look forward to receiving your emails.

Many thanks for the update Richard!!

[Geordie582]

Trying to expand the pictures

[Geordie582]

Trying to expand the pictures

Better?

Edited November 16, 2007 by Geordie582

[HistoricCoinage]

From the emails I think that this coin is of Canterbury mint, "PILDE ON CANT", Spink 1265/B.M.C. 4.

[Geordie582]

OK! HC I tend to agree, after a little experiment I have just made.

There are still a few puzzles in the legend. Why PA at the end?

Here's the result of 30 mins of work on PSP. Pity there is no program that would 'peel' the legends and straighten them in one go!

Edited November 17, 2007 by Geordie582

[tazdog]

thank you to all of you for your help in deciphering this coin GEORDIE i thought that was very clever i must experiment on the computer a little more myself, as i said to HC i am currently selling this coin on ebay, i didnt quite realise it would fetch as much as it is, i thought it might realise about £750, shows how much i know !

[tazdog]

hi again, any idea who the moneyer 'PILDE' is, i have read that the 'p' would be replaced with a 'w' and possibly the 'd' to a 'th' would that be right? i cant seem to find him anywhere,

[Geordie582]

"WILTHE" sounds about right for the era - probably the forerunner of Wilfred? I've trawled my literature without success, though!

Edited November 17, 2007 by Geordie582

[HistoricCoinage]

I don't think that it could be Taunton as only Elfric minted there. Taunton on Henry I coins is "TANTU"

That "P" looks like a blundered "T" and so it might read "CANTA"

"Pilde" at Canterbury is very confusing as there was no "Pilde" for Henry I mints... So perhaps Winedi, Willem, Wulfwine or Wulsi. I have a feeling that it might be Wulsi but it is an odd coin.

[Geordie582]

Here we go! If the 'P' at the end is a blundered 'T' then the first letter is surely a 'T' making it even more obscure!

"TILDE" in place of "PILDE". (Not know either)

[HistoricCoinage]

I don't know about that Richard, I'm just offering my own opinion.

[Geordie582]

I'm agreeing with you HC. I just want to point out that there is more not known about our early coinage than is recorded. All the publications are merely opinions when you get down to it!

My interest, Edward I/II/III provides a plethora of random marks, pellets, reversed letters etc. that have really only been guessed at! They say they are "moneyers marks" to show who and when. Who Really knows?

Edited November 17, 2007 by Geordie582

[scottishmoney]

I'm agreeing with you HC. I just want to point out that there is more not known about our early coinage than is recorded. All the publications are merely opinions when you get down to it!

My interest, Edward I/II/III provides a plethora of random marks, pellets, reversed letters etc. that have really only been guessed at! They say they are "moneyers marks" to show who and when. Who Really knows?

Oh, English coinage is so much easier to research where some record exists, or contemporary accounts, than Scottish. whole issues of Scottish coins are more conjecture than known.