St.Peter Edelstan penny

[Guest Gardth]

Hello, I'm new here.

I'm trying to research a coin I discovered on e-bay. I'm not a stranger to e-bay and can navigate to some obscure back lanes and sometimes actually find something interesting.

My first instinct after purchasing this coin is that the real experts will have a good laugh at my naivete in the coin world. I,however,have enjoyed the research relative to Anglo-Saxon coins in general,having studied a little Scandinavian history.

I thought perhaps this coin was most likely a copy, but it was sold a dug coin,I also thought the weight at 6 grams way over the top,the size at 22mm slightly too large. The one thing that did interest me was the Edelstan rex tobri. I thought the moneyers name should be there.

Anyway,I'm at a loss for answers and I'm grateful for any help.It's very malleable and there does appear to be the odd scratch. I'll assume its silver to this point.

[TomGoodheart]

I believe what you have is a modern souvenir. During the excavation of viking York some coin dies were found for the reverses of two coin issues. Copies were made and now you can go to the Jorvik centre and a 'moneyer'will strike you a coin from these. (In the 'old' days you could do it yourself...). What you appear to have therefore is a mule of two coins.

I do have a Jorvic 'coin' myself but can't put my hands on it at the moment to double check but from memory it looks the same. They are made from lead-free pewter (except I believe the first one given the the Queen or whoever opened the place which was silver.).

Oh, and welcome to the forum Gardth!

Edited October 29, 2006 by TomGoodheart

[Guest Guest]

Link here Jorvic

[Guest Gardth]

I believe what you have is a modern souvenir. During the excavation of viking York some coin dies were found for the reverses of two coin issues. Copies were made and now you can go to the Jorvik centre and a 'moneyer'will strike you a coin from these. (In the 'old' days you could do it yourself...). What you appear to have therefore is a mule of two coins.

I do have a Jorvic 'coin' myself but can't put my hands on it at the moment to double check but from memory it looks the same. They are made from lead-free pewter (except I believe the first one given the the Queen or whoever opened the place which was silver.).

Oh, and welcome to the forum Gardth!

I believe what you have is a modern souvenir.

Thanks Tom, I've looked at several copies and though they don't look exactly the same,I'm sure there are lots of dies around . If this one is from York,I guess I could live with that.

Gardth

[TomGoodheart]

Here you go - I finally found mine. The obverse an early period Hibero-Norse 'St Peter' penny dating from 919-925 muled with an obverse from one of Aethelstan 'King of all Britain' (924-939) (See Spink 1093).

An unlikely but interesting pairing given that Ethelstan, Aethelstan, or Edelstan (the son of Edward (Aedward) the Elder, and the grandson of the famous King Alfred the Great) actually took York from the Danes in his thrust to capture the Viking held areas of Northumberland in 927.

I hope you didn't pay over the odds?

[Guest Guest]

Here you go - I finally found mine. The obverse an early period Hibero-Norse 'St Peter' penny dating from 919-925 muled with an obverse from one of Aethelstan 'King of all Britain' (924-939) (See Spink 1093).

An unlikely but interesting pairing given that Ethelstan, Aethelstan, or Edelstan (the son of Edward (Aedward) the Elder, and the grandson of the famous King Alfred the Great) actually took York from the Danes in his thrust to capture the Viking held areas of Northumberland in 927.

I hope you didn't pay over the odds?

Well that certainly clears it up for me, lesson learned and I thank you for your trouble. The cost was a nice dinner for me and my wife.......which we will still go out for anyway.

I tend to take chances on items like this, sometimes that strategy works ,just not this time. I collect coins for the history not the $ value. Clearly I'd be bankrupt if I thought I could turn a profit each time.

So back to the less travelled lanes of e-bay, I'll dig something else up and report back.

Thanks again

[TomGoodheart]

I suspect most of us here have made a similar purchase at some time - something that looks interesting, promisingly odd or just something we haven't seen before. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes not. But each time we (hopefully) learn something by it! It makes the hobby interesting and challenging. It's how I picked up my first counterfeit coin - which incidentally I am still fond of!

Please do let us all know how you get on with ebay. And in the meantime, feel free to tell us about the rest of your collection if you like! New members, particularly ones that join in the chat and exchange of knowledge, are always welcome!

[Guest Gardth]

I suspect most of us here have made a similar purchase at some time - something that looks interesting, promisingly odd or just something we haven't seen before. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes not. But each time we (hopefully) learn something by it! It makes the hobby interesting and challenging. It's how I picked up my first counterfeit coin - which incidentally I am still fond of!

Please do let us all know how you get on with ebay. And in the meantime, feel free to tell us about the rest of your collection if you like! New members, particularly ones that join in the chat and exchange of knowledge, are always welcome!

Thanks Tom,

Basically my collection consists of 18th century Farthings,Halfpennies, and Pennies.I display them at my cabin with artifacts from the Hudson's bay Company.The intent relative to the coins was to acquire coinage the early fur-traders may have had in their possession while paddling north to York Factory from Lower Fort Garry here in Manitoba. The large canoe freighters would have passed directly in front of my cabin (see photo). I'll be back out there in the early Spring and will happily take some photos to include in my album.

In the meantime,I'm on the hunt for the elusive Viking coinage.(without much success)

[TomGoodheart]

Cool! I have some Hudson's Bay beads which would have been used for trade, given to me by a friend for whom I sometimes do some craft work since I have no time for painting and sculpture these days...

Here's a knife sheath I am beading at the moment - antique buckskin and beads, sinew sewn. Just as close as you can get to an original except for using modern needles.

[Geordie582]

Nice work! It's good to see craftsmanship is not dead. I won't call it art - that has become a dirty word for me with all the rubbish touted these days. I always say I'm a painter never an artist - they make unmade beds and dead half animals!!

I've always wondered just what "wampam" was. Could the exchange beads be included in the definition of the word?

Edited November 6, 2006 by Geordie582

[TomGoodheart]

Thanks Geordie.

My understanding is that wampum is/are white beads made from sea shells. Trade beads on the other hand were glass, made in Europe (generally in Venice) specifically for trade, both in the Americas and Africa. The beads I have are 'under white' (ie have a white core surrounded by colour) and are medium size - about 5mm. They were made and exported by the tun. I understand from my friend that the exchange rate was three of such beads for a beaver skin, so you can see the profits to be made for traders!

[Geordie582]

Perhaps they rightly belong in coin collections. After all, coins are just a different method of achieving the same object!

[Guest Gardth]

Cool! I have some Hudson's Bay beads which would have been used for trade, given to me by a friend for whom I sometimes do some craft work since I have no time for painting and sculpture these days...

Here's a knife sheath I am beading at the moment - antique buckskin and beads, sinew sewn. Just as close as you can get to an original except for using modern needles.

Hi Tom, Very nice work indeed.It appears similar to Assiniboine Sioux patterning or possibly Blackfoot. Do you have a knife in mind for the sheath?

I still have a buckskin jacket made for me by an elderly Ojibway woman.It's completely hand sewn with beadwork on the cuffs and the upper front and back. It is all white with a fringed back and front,made from moose embryo. I'll send you a photo when I get out to the lake in the spring. Unfortunately I don't fit it anymore,age has spread me out some.

The Hudson bay co. has always fascinated me and living in the heart of fur trade country I come across some interesting artifacts. Whilst walking along a stretch of beach near my cabin last summer, I spotted a rusty length of chain protruding from a small mound. After pulling at the chain a bit I discovered the item to be a very old steel animal trap. Most likely an Indian trapline that came loose and got lost with the lake windtides.

I also enjoy carving and the one in the photo is a rather large scale Viking made from pinewood.

[TomGoodheart]

Thanks guys! Nice work too Gardth. I'd like a pic of the jacket in the Spring! (and I'd be interested in photos of your paintings Geordie!). Just shows what an interesting selection of people we have here on this forum.

The knife sheath is for my friend who specialises in this sort of thing. He's adopted into the Lakota but I seem to remember him saying this pattern is closer to Hunkpapa who used this pink colour more. I think he has a knife for this sheath. He has a selection, including the last of a batch of Sheffield made Hudson's Bay blanks (sourced from the US) he had made up by a cutler back here in England.

Beadwork was traditionally women's work but now it seems a scarce craft. My friend has even talked of spending some time reteaching some of the skills he's picked up back on the Res, so they don't die out. Unfortunately as he's a Mauritian Moslem travelling to the States isn't something to be undertaken lightly anymore. I'm real lucky to know one of the few people in the UK who can run you up a sinew backed bow and a quiver of arrows, or a full war bonnet.

As for the beads Geordie, I think they could indeed be included in a collection of 'alternative' money, along with money cowries and other objects used for trade and barter. I think I'd draw the line when it comes to sheep and camels though!!

[Guest Gardth]

Hi Tom and Geordie, I have a neighbour whose family has been employed with the HBCo.since the 30's. She has shown me some very nice trade tokens that her father had from the 30's. He worked on the Nascopie in the far north and her mother was employed with headquarters here in Winnipeg. She had given me several boxes of old Beaver magazines going back to the 30's. Extremely interesting reading.

I too would like to see some of your paintings Geordie,it's refreshing to meet creative minds.

By the way I forgot to post my Viking carving,so this is it,clearly a Svein.

[Geordie582]

I'm a traditional painter, landscapes harbour scenes cute animals etc. But to be fair I think this should be under a suitable other forum. Any novice reading these posts will be very confused!

How about using "Nothing whatever to do with coins" forum? I'll see what pictures I have left and post a couple.