Henry VII penny/groat? & unknown

[chrislamb]

I would like some help ID'ing a couple of hammered coins:

The better condition coin I think is a Henry VII groat/half penny? does anyone have any other info as I couldn't find the exact one in Spinks coins of England, diameter 20mm.

I can't seem to desypher the other coin although some letters are visable, diameter 17mm

Any help would be much appreciated.

Chris

and the reverse

[Geordie582]

I'd say that the first is a penny of Edward, probably II, of London and I'd agree with Henry VII for the halfgroat, but I've never seen that angular crown before!

[chrislamb]

I'd say that the first is a penny of Edward, probably II, of London and I'd agree with Henry VII for the halfgroat, but I've never seen that angular crown before!

Sorry for all that rubbish above but couldn't delete it even though it's my post!! (admin can delete the rubbish)

I couldn't find that crown with the curles going inwards in Spink, so might it be a rare one?! What would the condition be for the second one?

Cheers

Chris

[Geordie582]

I'd put it at VF for issue. Just wait for the howls from other members!

I'm ignoring the clipping as it is usual for all earlier silver coins. Any without it have been in hoards.

Edited June 1, 2006 by Geordie582

[Rob]

I'd put it at VF for issue. Just wait for the howls from other members!

Howl. I hate the term VF or whatever for issue. The concept that a particular issue's grade is increased (and it invariably is increased) primarily as a result of it's scarcity or age eludes me. It's just an excuse for dealers to charge more and collectors to view their coins through rose tinted spectacles.

I have a circulated 1967 penny which I would like to ascribe as being dire for issue, most being hoarded straight from the bag .

[Geordie582]

To each his own?!?

[chrislamb]

I would love to know more about these 2 coins, ie dates, class etc. I would be very grateful. Also would it affect the value much if they were cleaned? I have been told that citric acid removes the tarnish, it is very strange that one side of the groat was really clean & shiney & the other was very dark, I would like to have both sides the same.

Chris

[Geordie582]

The answer to that is -DON'T- Cleaning beyond that necessary for identification will only reduce the value.

As to value, in that condition you can pick up the Edward on ebay for around £5. The Canterbury half groat is probably Spinks 2211 as I see the crown could be described as 'angular'. Worth about £20 but it depends on what the buyers are willing to pay in an auction. There have been some rediculous prices paid for coins on ebay lately!

(my third edit! My spelling has become very haphazard these days!!!

Edited June 3, 2006 by Geordie582

[chrislamb]

Thanks Geordie, is there any way to date them?

[Geordie582]

There's no information as to your whereabouts, but I'd advise a trip to the library to take out a Spinks "Coins of England", (or buy it!).

Edward II reigned from 1307 to 1327 and Henry VII from 1485 to 1509, though the coin I've identified is one of those in the first issues prior to 1489.

Hopes this helps. (as with all hammered, there will be dessenting voices! )

[chrislamb]

There's no information as to your whereabouts, but I'd advise a trip to the library to take out a Spinks "Coins of England", (or buy it!).

Edward II reigned from 1307 to 1327 and Henry VII from 1485 to 1509, though the coin I've identified is one of those in the first issues prior to 1489.

Hopes this helps. (as with all hammered, there will be dessenting voices! )

I've got Spink's Coins of England, but was not sure if there was a way of dating them to a smaller period of time than the reign of the monarch.

[Geordie582]

Not really. Only on pattern changes were dates known, hence first, second third, florin issues can be allotted to time periods, but no more precise.