Saxon Coins

[Geordie582]

I have puzzled, for a long while, as to the lack of recognised Cumbrian or Reghed coins in the Saxon series. I am at present reading Sir Francis Palgrave's History of the Anglo-Saxons and find in the preface, describing the 'Witenagemot' of Edward the Confessor, a statement that the 'King of Cumbria' occupied one of the first echelon seats. It seems peculiar that such a powerful 'kingdom' never produced any coinage before that time. Has anyone any other thoughts on the matter?

[Sylvester]

Dunno.

Things to consider perhaps from common sense;

1) Geography of the area. Were there any populous settlements that would warrant trade and commerce at a level that would make coinage feesible?

2) Could coinage from other kingdoms be plentiful enough to not necessitate the issuance of coinage in that particular kingdom?

3) Perhaps some Northumbrian or other coinage has been erronously ascribed to the wrong kingdom?

4) A fundamental saying in archaeology; "absence of evidence does not mean lack of evidence", i.e just because it's not here now doesn't mean it never existed.

[Geordie582]

Thanks! Sylvester. I think I'd already considered most of your points. The boundaries of kingdoms in that period were flexible, and names changed on a regular basis. Hence, Brense - Reghed - Cumbria - Northumbria, seems to be the progression of this neck of the woods. I just think that with every minor king producing his own coinage, at the time, there should have been some sign of coins from here! I don't think any ruler here would want to be left out!?!

I suppose mis-attributed coins is the favourite answer.

[Peter]

I reckon you border boys experimented with tin coinage....it was all coroded by 17C.

Some rulers didn't produce the coins (for whatever reason)

Thank goodness for Edward 1.

[Sylvester]

You mean Æthelred II?

There's an interesting thought, which of these four types of pennies are the most common coins left in existence?

1) Æthelred II

2) Cnut

3) Henry III Long Cross

4) Edward I 1279 Recoinage types

There's a heck of alot of those out there. A few million perhaps? Æthelred's and Cnut's survive in substantial quantities. Henry III & Edward I are everywhere you look.

[Peter]

They are coming out of the ground as we speak.

Good cnuts were available a few years back for about £60...they are now £200.

Anything but a London mint for Ed 1's ...but a nice round coin can still tempt me.

Unclipped shortcross hmmm nice...... but that Æthelred is a right bounder .

From another thread (site) I note you are going gaellic (or at least low countries)

I'm sorely tempted by The Silver Coins of Medieval France 476-1610 by James N Roberts (bargain at Amazon.com)but I'm worried this maybe a catalyst to open a massive hole in the Peter Coin funds.....Mrs Peter is on my case.

[Geordie582]

I know I'm digressing here, but have you come across any coins of Geoffry V of France? He was the founder of the Plantagenet dynasty.

[Geordie582]

They are coming out of the ground as we speak.

Good cnuts were available a few years back for about £60...they are now £200.

I bought my first Cnut helmet penny in 1956 for £8 in VF. Perhaps the prices haven't moved as far as you think?

I edited because I've just noticed I'd put my purchase at 1056. I'm not quite that old!

Edited January 18, 2006 by Geordie582

[Sylvester]

From another thread (site) I note you are going gaellic (or at least low countries)

I'm sorely tempted by The Silver Coins of Medieval France 476-1610 by James N Roberts (bargain at Amazon.com)but I'm worried this maybe a catalyst to open a massive hole in the Peter Coin funds.....Mrs Peter is on my case.

France yes, as for the low countries, well they might get roped in.

I could do with that book too actually!

In response to Geordie; No i haven't met anything directly from Geoffrey yet, although i've met things both sides of him, Henry II on one side and Fulk V on the other. The design of the coins from Fulk V (and maybe earlier?) is an immobilised type though, which runs through until Henry II and perhaps beyond.

I have not sources on these though as of yet, so i cannot be more specific.

[Peter]

I need to improve my "French" understanding and reading...yes !!!!! the sources are a tad difficult.

The cross overs and low countries/regions would seem to make an interesting study...a simple family tree would be useful.

[Peter]

In reply to you Geordie....no Geoffrey as yet...but the 1st Plantagenet will put him on my list.

This coin lark is like pyramid selling.

[Geordie582]

I agree. "is there no satisfying the man".

[Geordie582]

Sylvester - It's possible that Geoffry, being a 'mere' count just used the currency available. Saves money! I would pick the Plantagenets. I had thought it a nice defined range within my reach, but, as I've said with respect to date saving, there is always a coin in your series that you just can't get!

Edited January 18, 2006 by Geordie582

[Sylvester]

Sylvester - It's possible that Geoffry, being a 'mere' count just used the currency available. Saves money! I would pick the Plantagenets. I had thought it a nice defined range within my reach, but, as I've said with respect to date saving, there is always a coin in your series that you just can't get!

I am sure there are Geoffrey coins you know but they look exactly the same as the Fulk and Henry ones, same design, same legends. It's quite possibly the case that some coins identified as Fulk are really Geoffrey. Geoffrey's reign was one of significant expansion, so i'm sure he'll have coins of his own, it's just waiting for them to turn up.

This family tree approach that we are all seemingly taking sounds fun! I'm doing Blois (in theory) as well as Anjou though, but i'm sticking with the 12th century, i'm not going back earlier than that, nor going further forward.

There will always be stumbling blocks Geordie, it's that way of this game! They just didn't tell me that Khufu had built it though!

[Geordie582]

I'll let you know if I come across anything interesting in my trawl of the web. I had spotted an 'esterling' ( Contemporary copy of Edward silver) being touted as Ed III on ebay, but, for some unknown reason it disappeared from the site next time I looked. Just another of my interests and - no! - it wasn't out of time.

[Geordie582]

I do like my 'oddities' (hence my avatar)

[Sylvester]

Did the coin have a 'Buy it now' option?

If it wasn't that then one of two things might have happened;

The seller took it down and might perhaps relist it. This generally happens when it's reported as being listed wrong.

Or someone has approached the seller by email and offered to buy it straight up.

Failing that the seller changed there minds about selling it.

[Geordie582]

It wasn't 'Buy now' and I think, as it was listed "Edward penny?" someone put him wise and he (sorry, she/it) has removed it and it may reappear with a higher start price!

[Sylvester]

Or lower if they're a novice.