1853 Farthings, dot or colon after DEF

[Master Jmd]

I've just been browsing the farthings on ebay and came across this. It is a farthing of 1853 with only one dot after "DEF", whereas most(?) have a colon.

I checked to see if any of Colin Cooke's site listed any, and there are two, one with WW Raised and the other with Incuse. But there is also one with the colon type for WW Incuse pictured.

No books that I have, Spink or CCGB list this colon/dot difference, and I was wondering if it is actually noted anywhere?

[Rob]

I've just been browsing the farthings on ebay and came across this. It is a farthing of 1853 with only one dot after "DEF", whereas most(?) have a colon.

I checked to see if any of Colin Cooke's site listed any, and there are two, one with WW Raised and the other with Incuse. But there is also one with the colon type for WW Incuse pictured.

No books that I have, Spink or CCGB list this colon/dot difference, and I was wondering if it is actually noted anywhere?

My 1853 1/4d has the same feature. I looks like it is due to blocked dies though as the ebay close up image has what could be the remnants of the lower stop. This is also just visible on mine as a dot of reduced area in very low relief.

[Master Jmd]

I had thought of that. Colin Cooke's EF WW Incuse (Link) looks quite clear to have only one stop. I don't know about the mark where the lower stop should be, but that same sort of mark is found to the right of the stop too.

The same sort of mark is found where the upper stop should be on this 1839 one stop after DEF farthing, yet that is still listed as a different type.

[Rob]

For what it is worth, here is a close up of the same area on my 1853. The remains of the stop can just be seen. So I still say blocked die and therefore not a genuine variety.

[Gary]

The 1839 missing colon variety seems only to occur on the 2 pronged Trident coin.

The two that I have read " REG: FID. DEF " , the colon completly missing and also the upper dot after "FID".

The 1839, 3 Pronged Trident coin of mine, has a complete colon after "DEF"

2x 1838 DEF: and DEF.

1849 REG FID. DEF: (although traces of the missing dots are just visable under a x10 mag)

Micheal Gouby

lists a few more exmples an his website.

[DAS]

The 1853 DEF. is a known variety , Peck lists two varities for this date FID. or DEF. on top of the "normal" variety with all colons ( Obverse 2 and Obverse 3). There is also a known 3/2 for this date as well.

The 1839 2 prong trident variety always occurs FID. DEF , so I am not convinced that a blocked die explains it . Perhaps the punch that made the die had one stop broken off ? I would be interested to hear from anyone that have the rarer 1840 2 pronged variety to see if this configuration is replicated on this date.

The 1838 is known with REG. FID. and DEF. ( not all together) as well as the full colon varieties