Mintage Copper and Bronze Pennies

[Gary]

Hello,

I have been doing a bit of adding up.

Why is it that over a period of 35years (1825-1860) only a relatively small amount of copper pennies were minted. The sum adds up to just 31.5 Million compared to the enormous 92 Million in just the first 3 years of the bronze penny (1860-1862). What happened to justify this large increase in the demand for penny coins? Indeed, not just for pennies but for small change in general. food for thought?

Thanks,

Gary

ps. Mintage figures are taken from Collectors Coins GB 2006

[Rob]

Reduced bartering and token replacement? Over this period in time there was a large continuing large influx into the cities with the increasing industrial base and those people had to be paid. Silver denominations would have been too valuable for doing the family shopping, so base metal currency demand would have increased. Promisory tokens were abundant from the end of the 1700s but had to be replaced and so I assume this was to cater for a society which was increasingly cash dependant not having the facility to produce their own food. Just a thought.

[Gary]

plausable, but surely this build up would have taken place over many years. Admittingly the mintage figures for late copper did rise, 1859 Penny 1,075,200 but compared too a years later, over 5 million for the bronze 1860 and then a whopping 36,5 million for 1861, it just seems out of proportion to me.

By the way does anyone know how long after 1860 was the copper coinage still legal tender?

[Rob]

I don't know how long they were legal tender for, but suggest they were probably withdrawn fairly soon after the introduction of the bun heads. Admittedly they are rare, but I've never seen a very worn 1860/59 - all have been VF or a bit better. These are invariably pictured in auction catalogues and sales lists whatever the grade and in all probability were collectable in 1860. Most 1858s and 9s tend to be in good grade for all denominations too so I suspect they were withdrawn asap. You see damaged ones, but not badly worn examples that often.

Also they stopped making the groat in the 1850s. 1855 is the last date in the series although it is not unknown for the mint to produce coins dated for previous years in subsequent years and this they may have done. This would have required an increase in copper/bronze output too. I don't have any small silver mintage figures, but any reduction in output could be taken up by base metal output. The output dated 1861 may therefore have been produced over a few years given the caveat above.

[Guest Guest_Red Riley_I'm_a_Guest]

I don't know how long they were legal tender for, but suggest they were probably withdrawn fairly soon after the introduction of the bun heads. Admittedly they are rare, but I've never seen a very worn 1860/59 - all have been VF or a bit better. These are invariably pictured in auction catalogues and sales lists whatever the grade and in all probability were collectable in 1860. Most 1858s and 9s tend to be in good grade for all denominations too so I suspect they were withdrawn asap. You see damaged ones, but not badly worn examples that often.

Also they stopped making the groat in the 1850s. 1855 is the last date in the series although it is not unknown for the mint to produce coins dated for previous years in subsequent years and this they may have done. This would have required an increase in copper/bronze output too. I don't have any small silver mintage figures, but any reduction in output could be taken up by base metal output. The output dated 1861 may therefore have been produced over a few years given the caveat above.

Sorry to raise a long dead discussion, but I am new to this site and this is something that interests me. The copper coinage (1/8d to 1d) was officially demonetised in 1869, although as the bank had been paying a premium to get in the old copper coins, there can have been few left by that date. Don't forget also that the coins dated 1806 and 1807 (and I understand 1797) were still in circulation, so the massive mintage in 1860 to 1863 was not in itself surprising. What is astonishing is how it went from there and nearly half a billion (American version - sorry) pennies were produced by the end of the century. Not certain if the 1860s coincided with the invention of the piggy bank.

As a postscript, and I believe this is in Michael Gouby's book, by the mid-1860s, many businesses (I believe the example quoted was breweries) were complaining about being awash with the new pennies and couldn't they have something else please?

Anyway, nice messageboard. Looks a lot more gentlemanly than the football related sites I'm used to!