Short Cross Penny

[Citizen H]

Back with a sift through the collection / hoard of my Hammered coins

This Identification is a real challenge when rubbed out, 

could it be a Short Cross, Penny, Otto of Ravensberg 1220-1244 ? 

or John 1199-1216

a better knowledge opinion appreciated,......... many thanks "H"  

[Citizen H]

for some reason the web page wouldn't allow the coin picture to load the right way up,.... on this occasion all seem well...... 

[Coys55]

Not much to go on, but definitely a John (Class 5 ?) or Henry III (class 6?)short cross penny.

Still trying to work out the moneyer and mint

[Coys55]

I think I can see DRE, which could make it:

Alisandre on C, G or GI  (Ipswich) or R (Rochester). That would make it John class 5b or 5c.

or

Andrev on London, Canterbury, Lincoln or Winchester. Also John class 5.

There's definiitely a ligated ND, but that wouldn't necessarily help to differentiate between the two. Possibly a C at the end of the mint signature?

So, I'm going for ANDREV.ON.NIC, John class 5, Lincoln mint  

Anyone else?

Edited April 15 by Coys55