Coin Engravers in the United Provinces in 1640 ish

[Rob]

Does anyone have any literature which gives the names of any Dutch engravers in 1640 or thereabouts, or have knowledge of any names. We are talking in the middle of the 30 years war here, so the reference material might be about coins, or something military and related. They would be active in the protestant United Provinces, i.e the coastal regions.

I'm trying to think laterally. The reference to coins struck at Hereford in the Civil War mention a 'Rude the Coyner', but given Prince Rupert came from Holland to support Charles I, it is possible that he brought a Dutch mint worker or two with him. Ruud is a Dutch name, and the style of the early W/SA coins is odd in that you get two letters separated by colons. In other words, exactly the same as seen on continental issues such as contemporary ducats etc. when there a number of titles to incorporate. It is clear from this layout that the engraver wasn't completely au fait with this country's obverse legends.

Ta.

 

[Diaconis]

Rob,

Two references sprang to mind:

- Biographical dictionary of medallists: coin, gem, and seal engravers, mint-masters, &c., ancient and modern, with references to their works B.C. 500-A.D. 1900 / compiled by L. Forrer.  I just checked and can only find reference to a Francois Rude, no Coyner and no 'Ruud' unfortunately.

I think your best bet would be - Beschrijving der Nederlandsche Historie Penningen (Description of Historic Dutch Medals), Gerard van Loon.

I have a hard copy but do not have access to it at this moment, however, you might be able to find an electronic copy somewhere on the net. If not, I'll be able to scan through my copy at a later date if need be and you can't find one.

Paul.

[Diaconis]

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Beschrijving_van_Nederlandsche_historie.html?id=aRPtdIxD3-0C&redir_esc=y

 

[Rob]

1 hour ago, Diaconis said:

Rob,

Two references sprang to mind:

- Biographical dictionary of medallists: coin, gem, and seal engravers, mint-masters, &c., ancient and modern, with references to their works B.C. 500-A.D. 1900 / compiled by L. Forrer.  I just checked and can only find reference to a Francois Rude, no Coyner and no 'Ruud' unfortunately.

I think your best bet would be - Beschrijving der Nederlandsche Historie Penningen (Description of Historic Dutch Medals), Gerard van Loon.

I have a hard copy but do not have access to it at this moment, however, you might be able to find an electronic copy somewhere on the net. If not, I'll be able to scan through my copy at a later date if need be and you can't find one.

Paul.

Thanks Paul.

Was Francois Rude from the right period and location? It could be that Rude the Coyner was the correct spelling. I threw Ruud in as an Anglicised version of a foreign name to broaden the number of possibilities. If Rude is French, there is also the possibility that Queen Henrietta 'borrowed' him, being of French Royal blood.

As for the van Loon book, my Dutch ability is zero, so unless there is a translated version, I'm b*****d.

Rude the Coyner was mentioned as being at Hereford in October 1644, which by my reckoning was the same time as Gerard's troops returned from west Wales for the winter recess. I also think he was the person responsible for the initial SA coins and the Tower marked W coins together with halfcrown obverse C plus a number of reverses. Also the early W/SA shilling obv. B and the tower marked 6d. I also think he followed Rupert to Bristol in Sept. 1644, but was sent to Hereford later that month or in early October as Prince Rupert was still President of Wales at this point, and so responsible for all things in Wales and the Marches.

[Diaconis]

Rob,

Fr. Rude was a sculptor (4 January 1784 – 3 November 1855) so it won't be him, unfortunately.

Just completed a scan of Van Loon and did not find a reference to Rude or Ruud the Coyner either, the search continues...

 

[Rob]

16 hours ago, Diaconis said:

Rob,

Fr. Rude was a sculptor (4 January 1784 – 3 November 1855) so it won't be him, unfortunately.

Just completed a scan of Van Loon and did not find a reference to Rude or Ruud the Coyner either, the search continues...

 

Thanks.

Any Rudigers in there? That's another possibility because it would naturally be shortened to Rude. Sorry, no immediately accessible umlauts