Victorian die number question

[Sylvester]

I've wondered this before but never got around to asking.

Let's say there are two sovereigns, an 1868 and an 1869 and they both have the same die number, lets pick 21.

Now as you are no doubt aware on sovereigns the die number is on the undated side of the coin. Are these two different No. 21 dies, or could it plausibly be one die that was used over two years?

 

[Rob]

That sounds like a question for the Royal Mint, as on the face of it, both are possible. 

Do we know of any overdates with the same die & number? This would shed a light on whether the die number was exclusive to the die and not the year, but does rely on the die being flawed to confirm its reuse.

[Nick]

I'm not aware of any die numbers being used more than once.  Having said that, human error must mean that a die number was mistakenly reused at some point.

My understanding is that the die number is unique to the die, so where the date is on the obverse - it must be possible to have the same die number on different year coins, especially as the obverse dies did not last as long as the reverse dies.

[Sylvester]

That's kind of what I thought too...

But then you look at reported die numbers for sovereigns, eg. die number 1 was used in the following years: 1863, 1865, 1866, 1868, 1870, 1871, 1873

Two consecutive years maybe, but over 7 years? Isn't that stretching it a little?

The silver coinage is of course a lot easier in that the die number and the dates are on the same sides and so it's clear that barring an overdate, they are in fact different dies. Maybe dies produced by the same die cutter though? Quality control for each of the mint's employees?

[1949threepence]

4 hours ago, Sylvester said:

I've wondered this before but never got around to asking.

Let's say there are two sovereigns, an 1868 and an 1869 and they both have the same die number, lets pick 21.

Now as you are no doubt aware on sovereigns the die number is on the undated side of the coin. Are these two different No. 21 dies, or could it plausibly be one die that was used over two years?

 

As Rob says, both are possible.

In successive years, I'd say the same die was more probable than not. But if the same die No was used 10 years apart, it's unlikely to be the same actual die. 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by 1949threepence
talking rubbish

[Mr T]

Possible but unlikely I would think? I assume that die numbers were used sequentially and dies would either have been used until unusable or destroyed.

Not to say that a numbered die didn't fall behind the couch at some point or other and get refound though.