George IV Farthing 1825 with an incomplete 5

[johnboy183]

I have discovered this coin among a large number left to me many years ago when my Father died. Not having looked at it very carefully until now ( although it is in really nice condition) I have discovered the number 5 in the 1825 date is incomplete. The upright of the 5 is missing so it looks like a back to front letter c with a sloping dash above it. As I was about to put this up for sale when I discovered this I thought i should ask those who may know better if this is a common finding or if it could affect the value I should ask. I will try and photograph it and post that soon but any thoughts would be gratefully received.

Thanks

John

[Paulus]

Hi John

I think we should start with the best pics you can take, welcome to the Predec Forum!

[Rob]

If it is as you say then the options are filled die or damaged. The latter will reduce value, the former not.

[johnboy183]

Here are the best photos I can take in the shortness of time and the light conditions now

Cheers

John

GIV farthing.doc

[Colin G.]

I would be interested in obtaining some larger images of the coin if possible. This fault occurs across several dies and is therefore unlikely to be die fill, but a damaged punch used to cut the date. It can also be found paired with Obverse 1 and Obverse 2. Can you tell what Obverse you have?...the lowest leaves in the laurel with either have incuse midribs to the leaves or raised midribs to the leaves. 

 

As for value, it would probably do a bit better than a standard 1825 farthing in similar condition, but the difference would only be marginal. I may be interested in making you an offer or bidding on it if you are to put it up on eBay. I have a few now and really need to have a study...but another one in the pot for when that time comes wouldn't do any harm.

 

I actually think it could possibly be a 3 that has been damaged or altered, but the fact it is paired with Obverse 2 means it was intended as a 5...need to do some overlays to be sure

[johnboy183]

Hi Colin 

Thank you for that information - it is helpful. As said i am not really a coin affecionado so not sure exactly which obverse it is. I took a lot of images but the file size to attach says is 0.49mb max so I had to reduce the size of those I sent. Did I read this wrong and could send some higher mb files of the areas concerned?

I must admit I have now found several William and Mary, George 11,111 and Geo IV coins in this little haul so will probably also be asking further questions in future on these as well.

Regards

John

ps have found your email address so will send some higher qual shots there.

[Colin G.]

John

I have spotted the images further down in your document. I only thought there was one image at first. It appears to be Obverse 2, but feel free to email the images through and I will have a better look.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Colin G.

[Stuntman]

By the sounds of it, your Father had an interesting and varied collection.  I'm sure that quite a few of us might be interested in seeing more of these coins.  I'd certainly be interested in seeing pictures of anything pre-Victoria, particularly the William & Mary coins.

By the way, another way of posting photos is to upload them to a photo sharing website (I use photobucket) and then post the link.  As an example, here's my George IV Farthing from 1821:

[johnboy183]

Thanks for the advice. I am playing with Photobucket now.

I do find photographing coins quite challenging as to get the detail I need to shoot in macro and closeup but then the photos do not seem to mimic the coin as it appears to the naked eye despite having tried a variety of backgrounds and camera settings. The photos of the farthing I posted earlier are typical as in real life it has a very pleasant and nice patina and finish and yet in the photos appears garish and mottled too much. Are there any insider tricks to obtain more likelike representations? (your photos above are far more what I need)

regards

John

[Paulus]

I have spent many many hours trying to come up with a set-up that results in more life-like coin pics, I'm reasonably happy with them now.

For indoor photography one of the improvements was to start using LED DAYLIGHT lamps.

This useful article set me off in the right direction:

http://coinimaging.com/photography.html

[johnboy183]

Thanks Paulus. That is an excellent article. Time to do a little learning I think before going further!

Thanks again

Regards

John

[Colin G.]

On 29 June 2016 at 1:04 PM, Colin G. said:

I would be interested in obtaining some larger images of the coin if possible. This fault occurs across several dies and is therefore unlikely to be die fill, but a damaged punch used to cut the date. It can also be found paired with Obverse 1 and Obverse 2. Can you tell what Obverse you have?...the lowest leaves in the laurel with either have incuse midribs to the leaves or raised midribs to the leaves. 

 

As for value, it would probably do a bit better than a standard 1825 farthing in similar condition, but the difference would only be marginal. I may be interested in making you an offer or bidding on it if you are to put it up on eBay. I have a few now and really need to have a study...but another one in the pot for when that time comes wouldn't do any harm.

 

I actually think it could possibly be a 3 that has been damaged or altered, but the fact it is paired with Obverse 2 means it was intended as a 5...need to do some overlays to be sure

Well after this original query, and a nagging doubt that John raised again when someone challenged it as being an 1823 farthing...I have done some overlays and can confirm that it is without doubt an 1823 farthing. Or should I say a damaged 3. The shape of the loop is a match when compared to an 1823, and the size of the digit is also a factor. The 5 tends to be a bit taller, whereas the horizontal cross bar correctly aligns with the 3.

This only left the issue of Obverse 1 being paired with this fault, which caused a potential issue because there are no 1823 farthings that are found with Obverse 1. I had a good look through my images and it is in fact my error that led me to thinking an Obverse 1 existed, all examples are in fact Obverse 2 with incuse midribs to the leaves. I hang my head in shame 

A big thanks to John for pursuing the query!!

[johnboy183]

I always was a troublemaker! or a perfectionist/nitpicker my wife would say!! My Executive bosses before I retired had a few other choice expletives to describe it!

Thanks for all the help and lets hope it simplifies things for the future for others.

kind regards

John