Accumulator

Thank you all for your views on the relative rarity and also your comments on possible conservation methods. Firstly, I really am not looking to sell. I've had the coin for many years and it's an important part of my collection. My interest in coins spans several decades but, like many, interest is cyclic and only in recent times have I had the opportunity and inclination to go through some of my old coins again. E-bay and this forum have been a catalyst in that process. I'm now very much in an acquisitive phase so more interested in filling gaps/upgrading than parting with anything except duplicates. Indeed, I have made a few new purchases over the last few months. Regarding the verdigris, the truth is I hadn't even noticed until I scanned the coin in preparation for posting. I know that sounds incredible, but sometimes coins remain out of sight for years. I will think about using olive oil as I'm familiar with this, but won't be using any other patent dips or cleaning agents other than a mild detergent and distilled water. I haven't scanned the obverse but it seems mercifully free of any verdigris whatsoever.

Thank you all for your views on the relative rarity and also your comments on possible conservation methods. Firstly, I really am not looking to sell. I've had the coin for many years and it's an important part of my collection. My interest in coins spans several decades but, like many, interest is cyclic and only in recent times have I had the opportunity and inclination to go through some of my old coins again. E-bay and this forum have been a catalyst in that process. I'm now very much in an acquisitive phase so more interested in filling gaps/upgrading than parting with anything except duplicates. Indeed, I have made a few new purchases over the last few months. Regarding the verdigris, the truth is I hadn't even noticed until I scanned the coin in preparation for posting. I know that sounds incredible, but sometimes coins remain out of sight for years. I will think about using olive oil as I'm familiar with this, but won't be using any other patent dips or cleaning agents other than a mild detergent and distilled water. I haven't scanned the obverse but it seems mercifully free of any verdigris whatsoever.

Hmmm... 1926 ME. Somebody is going to be disappointed!

I think I've found what I was looking for Here See the archive of Coin News May 2006 p.27. Someone here may have a copy of the original article? So the 1922 penny with ME obverse and 1927 reverse is considered unique. The only one being sold by London Coins in 2006. Hence it's not in Freeman but in the newer Spink guides. To clarify, mine is the 'more common' version with the standard 1922 obverse.

I don't think so, at least that's not how I read it. It appears they list the following for 1922: Type 4051 - 1922 Penny (the common one, F192) Type 4051 - 1922 Penny with Rev. of 1927 (my F192A) Type 4054A - 1922 Penny Obv: ME, Rev: Shorter index finger (not listed in Freeman)

Sorry, I actually tried to edit my post to make it clear I meant Britannia's finger, not George V's! The ability to edit some posts but not others seems a bit random! That's the confusion. Spink suggests that both versions of Britannia are possible with the ME obverse for 1926 & 1927. At least that's how I read it. For 1922 you also have an ME, according to them, but "of the highest rarity". Anyone know about these?

Thank you for your comments. I really don't plan to sell it though, but it's interesting to get a feel for relative rarity. Now to something that has confused me. According to Spink (4054A) there's a 1922 Penny with modified effigy. It's not mentioned in Freeman though. Spink states "shorter index finger". Does anyone know more about this coin?

Just realised it's very hard to compare two separate images, so here's a single image with the coins side by side, F192A on the right:

Ok here goes, what I have as my F192A. I've shown another 1922 in similar condition for comparison purposes. Freeman has it as rarity R18. There are several differences from the common F192, but the easiest to spot are: Centre prong of trident below a border tooth, not touching it Shield closer to Britannia (so further from edge of coin and more sea showing) Britannia's thumb higher up the George Cross The lower edge of Britannia's outstretched arm curves upwards (instead of downwards) from her body This is a penny I found amongst many old slot machine coins I searched, so not something I have paid for (well one penny, I suppose). I'm posting to ask whether others believe it's really as rare as Freeman states? Any comments or comparative info much appreciated. F192 on the left, F192A on the right.

There's always the "Enquiries about non-British coins" forum or even the "Nothing whatsoever to do with coins at all, ever" forum around here somewhere

If you take "hammered" to mean his state of mind on returning from the pub, then it makes perfect sense. I've closed the window now, but did he say "jester seeks village idiot"?

And its a farthing!! :)

1847 penny "Needs a clean" apparently!

I just weighed mine at 56.47g

Here are details from the obverses of two 1887 sovereigns that I have catalogued as Spink 3866A (Marsh 125) and Spink 3866A (Marsh 125A). I have always cherished the second as a coin which Spink describes as "Extremely rare" rather than quoting a value. I don't have too many of those! Marsh however gives it R2 or "Very rare". Has anyone seen another of have any idea how common/rare they really are? Google shows me that London Coins sold one in 2008 for £700 but I can't find any others. Neither Marsh nor London Coins have a photo.

Plenty of dings, I agree, but virtually all the detail seems to be there. Maybe I'm scratching around but what about the patch in the field below the chin on the obverse? I understand that later strikes of these coins were made with the original dies in a slightly corroded condition. It just feels different to me. I'll shut up now

I managed not to answer the question! So, reservations apart, I would say EF and although value in Spink 2010 states £400, similar coins on eBay are around £200.

I hesitate to say this, and it may just be the photos, but the coin feels wrong. I'm assuming it actually looks copper coloured in hand? Colour aside, the fields have a pitted look to them, usually associated with casting. The edge looks too rounded for the wear to other areas. The lettering appears too clean, given the apparent wear to other areas. Usually the recesses of the letters have some fill in coins of this condition, but here the recesses are clean. It's hard without the coin in hand and I appreciate that scanning can produce strange results so I may be wrong.

I think he meant "it's polished up a treat for it's age"

97p at today's rate. As Peckris says, you're not going to endear yourself to folk here by constantly asking for values of completely random coins and currencies in such a scatter-gun manner. It's beginning to sound like trolling which, if it's not, I'm sure you would wish to avoid.

Actually it's quite true that Britannia is slimmer on the 1797 penny. Too many pies or was she 'in the family way'?

Well... I stand by my assertion that there is certainly a new breed of ebay "dealer" Most of them know bugger all about coins, rarities, values or anything else and just see 300 coins being worth £5 each = £1500 on a £120-£140 estimate. They buy them and try and punt them on to some unsuspecting newbie collector. They are driving the market at the bottom end. People like me that used to do very well on bulk lots at all of the major sales are now winning bugger all because we know that 300 coins with that estimate are probably worth £600 tops (minus fees, tax, accountancy fees, advertising etc etc because we are registered with HM govt as taxpayers). We now have to buy small named lots with coins pictured (if bidding blind) or single high value items, so we are pushing the high end coin prices up. Add into the mix the new breed of cash rich investor and the old school collectors (who both have to pay more because of people like me) and you have your answer. The other big problem for knowledgeable buyers is the gold and silver price hike. An 1887 half sov was worth about £110/£120 before the surge in gold, it's now worth £110/£120 resale as are all of the commoner dates. Bulk silver lots are now worth more as scrap than they are as coins so we are also facing competition from traditional antique dealers who move in like sharks once they smell quick profits (although the margins are small the turnaround is immediate). All in all it's a tough world at the moment for those of us who do this for a living. I hope Peck is correct and the bubble deflates slightly or we'll all be finding it easier to get a mortgage than we will to buy decent coins! I'm really not sure what the drivers are, but the surge in market prices is clear. It's interesting to make a comparison with another very similar commodity, stamps. As a young lad I collected both but actually favoured stamps over coins for some reason. I well remember, at age 10, selling my train set for £10 to buy a penny black! Today I still have both the stamps and coins I collected and guess what, the stamps are virtually worthless by comparison to the coins. Take a look at stamps on eBay which don't even come close to their prices of 30 years ago and many of which are now almost unsaleable. So why has the staple of all teenage collectors, the postage stamp, fallen by the wayside while coins have grown in popularity? When times are hard, investments tend to regress towards what people regard as their intrinsic vale. This is particularly apparent in the gold coin market where intrinsic=bullion and any investor can instantly asses value. By comparison, many other forms of investment are a lot less attractive. When it comes down to it, stamps are just paper rectangles! Now we come to the guesswork. What if the attractiveness of gold coins as an investment vehicle, particularly through eBay, has created a whole new breed of collector? What if these buyers have seen other, perhaps more interesting, coins listed alongside their beloved sovereigns and have decided to take a punt? What if one purchase has become two, then three, then the beginnings of a collection? Remember, these will generally be well-heeled investors as sovereigns aren't cheap. As I say, it's guesswork but something is happening and people are spending lots of money. and there has to be a reason for it!

Agreed. Such pennies were a staple of the 'dreaded auction lot'. You know the one "...huge collection of (mainly) 20th Century coins. In three large cardboard boxes." The one where you thought "Shall i? Nah, sod it, life's too short." I should have done what you did. Instead I thought, "Go on then...." and ended up with an awful lot! Actually I had a good excuse because for 10 years I ran an arcade with my collection of old penny machines at my daughter's school Christmas Fayre. I let the kids take winnings away and got through a few hundred each year. So I had to replenish my stock!

Thanks Tom, I have just e.mailed CP and one other dealer who has been recommended. If/when I get replies I will make a decision as to what to do. Don't fancy leaving them till I'm a gonner, the wife will probably spend them at the shops. I can also image which gentleman you refer to. This is my view: Modern gold coins are not of great interest to most coin collectors so I wouldn't expect coin dealers to be able to offer what you want... but I may be wrong so please try. Instead such coins are generally acquired by people looking for an extremely convenient way to invest into gold as a commodity, while providing an element of additional interest in that they appeal to their natural instinct to form and covet a collection of attractive valuable possessions. There's the added advantage, of course, that profits from the sale of such UK gold is exempt from Capital Gains Tax. Putting these factors together has created an extremely tradeable commodity which, for the most part, sits outside the coin collector's world. I should also point out that as they fetch a premium over pure bullion value they are unlikely to be melted down. Like it or loathe it, the greatest market today for such a commodity is eBay. You can literally track the day's gold price by the bidding on such coins and it is almost unheard of for one to slip through at below bullion value. Generally they maintain a healthy premium above this, and certainly more than a dealer could sensibly offer. This is a peculiarity of gold on eBay and doesn't apply to other coins. Personally I have bought many gold coins and even sold a few without any problem to date, though I realise there's always a first time! The choice is yours, but there's no better marketplace for gold than eBay that I know of.

Congratulations! I have never tried metal detecting, but I can see that the pleasure gained from actually finding coins rather them buying them would be great indeed. That, and placing them in the historical and geographical context that is rarely possible with purchased coins.