joe_77

I was able to discuss the matter at hand with Spink, which is on record for the buy of lot 322 of the Glendining auction in 1962. I was told that (quoting) "[..] the coin would have been privately sold to a Spink client shortly after; it was typical for English numismatic dealers of that period to bid on behalf of clients". I was also notified by the Spink specialist that Glendining did actually offer such silver crowns in other occasions. We see mention in 4th September 1969 (lot 194); 22nd October 1970 (lot 505) and 25th November 1981 (lot 432). The AR symbol, unless used loosely, should indicate that these were silver. Attaching in this thread following the same order below. Links: https://archive.org/details/catalogueofengli00gle_a48 & https://archive.org/details/catalogueofengli00gle_t4t & https://archive.org/details/catalogueofengli00gle_rgo This further evidence raises some questions: Could they have consistently mistaken VIP proofs as silver? Were these the same coin or are there many specimens around? Consequently, are (or were) these silver versions more common than we thought? It's also worth noting, as pointed out by the Spink specialist, that the writing "..in case of issue" in the 1970 auction might indicate an official distribution by the Royal Mint.

Due to Graham Dyer's retirement from the RMM, the RMM is not able to either forward our queries to him or share his contact details. I tried writing to the BANS but so far no reply. Anyone has a way of getting in contact with him?

The above letter mentions a discussion in the 1958 Report which I believe references the snippet that shall post below.

Good morning all! I'm very happy to share another piece of the puzzle that the Royal Mint Museum was able to unearth! Kudos to them! As mentioned in some prior messages, Day references in "English Silver Crowns" a Communication to the author from the Librarian and Curator of the Royal Mint, dated April 25th 1961. Here's Day's letter and the reply. Surprisingly enough, the exchange also talks about our main query regarding the search of the silver crown!

Thanks everyone, I will ask to the RMM to pass along to Mr. Dyer our main enquiry (Silver proof existence) & whether he has some comments on VIP quantities/origins for the 1960 Crown. After ruminating on the VIP proofs a few day I basically have the same opinion as @VickySilver i.e. they do exist therefore.. whether by accident or intent ..something/someone did something different to make them compared to the way more common proof-like version. Thus, it would be very interesting in understanding more of how they actually came to exists. Understanding this might also shed some light on their quantities.

I would also add that, apart from the glaring silver crown issue, we also have a lot of uncertainty surrounding what we call "VIP Proofs". After my conversation with the Mint it seems obvious that we are really journeying in the dark as far as how many of these were produced. The feeling I got is that there might be even more than we think. The next course of action could be to request the documents suggested by the RMM at the National Archives. Anyone wants to help with that? Another route could be trying to find someone who worked at the Mint during those years but this seems like having a very small chance of success given that 65 have passed.

Hello @VickySilver ! Regarding Glens' numismatist, could he have been Mr. Bill French ? On my quest to find more info I had an exchange with Mr. Mark Rasmussen who worked at Spink since the late 60ies. While he did not see/know personally this silver crown, he also shared your sentiment which I will paraphrase below as I did understand it: I am now pursuing Spink directly, hoping they may provide more paper trail for this silver crown! I am also still trying to: Get in contact with Mr. Davies to confirm if he has more info on the silver crown mentioned in his book. Get in contact with Mr. Michael Day to get more info on the referenced "Communication to the author from the Librarian and Curator of the Royal Mint, dated April 25th 1961". While I talked to the Royal Mint Museum I was told this was probably a private communication between Mr. Day and the Mint and as such it is probably lost unless Mr. Day can provide a copy of it. If anyone has better contacts or can help to get these three enquiries going I will gladly welcome the help!

Hello @VickySilver I posted it some post back, you can see it here: https://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/15028-concerning-proofs-of-the-1960-british-exhibition-crown/?do=findComment&comment=216805

Hello everyone, Between July 22nd and 23rd 2025 I was lucky enough to have a fruitful conversation with The Royal Mint Museum. Please do find below our exchange which will surely provide important information to our quest to better understand the 1960 Crown. What follows is a re-formatted write-up for better reading of the whole conversation but has been cross-checked by the RMM.

Thank you VickySilver! I think this is an intriguing topic and it feels like many information have yet not been properly investigated. Hopefully my effort will be beneficial to the community. By the way, in the 1960 Mint Annual Report we read: "[..] the New York Herald Tribune to caption a photograph ‘While Prince Philip stood by Vice-President Nixon looks through a jeweller’s glass at a British gold coin’" (they are referring to the medal which was struck on site). I wonder if this picture is the one immortalising the moment!

Last reference I found is from English Silver Crowns by Day. Footnotes 220 refers to the Annual Mint Report (which I shared earlier in the post) and 221 refers to the Communication to the author from the Libraria and Curator of the Royal Mint, dated April 25th 1961 (I shall find it and post it).

Continuing the collection of reference material on the matter, here's from English Silver Coinage by Bull. Footnote 3 states "Struck on polished dies for sale at the British Trade Exposition in New York".

I was also able to get a better pic of the Davies book as to properly read the footnotes. Thanks to all the kind people who are helping out on this quest to get more info on these coins!

Thanks for chiming in, oldcopper! Again thanks to Mr. Hill I was able to find the catalogue in question here: https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/auctionlots?AucCoId=512958&AuctionId=534081 Posting here for posterity the relevant bits.

Thank you very much David, it sure does help! Does anyone have the 1962 catalogue from Glendinings ? I'm trying to find also that for completeness sake. If none has it I might try to buy one or ask for help from one of the sellers!

I was able to get a reply from Mr. Hill which I will summarise below. Many Thanks to Mr. Hill for his help! I will try to get in touch with Spink on the matter!

Excellent point! This would also make an easy marker to distinguish between varieties so one would think a reference book would lead with this as opposed to a "ping test" ? Is there any chance to get in touch with Mr. Davies to ask for clarification on this? I wrote to him yesterday; will update if I get a reply!

Hello, thank you for your reply! Could you clarify --- are you saying that you believe more VIP Proofs were minted as opposed to the 30-50 figure I find online OR do you believe the prices are too high for coins with a mintage of say 50? The 30k £ was top pop. Non-top pop specimens go for less, like 4-8k £. One just sold few minutes ago (PCGS PF63 CAM) at auction for 5k £. According to the Annual report we know for certain that 18.000 were brought to New York -- assuming they were all proof-like. Numista states 70.000 for the whole proof-like mintage; not sure where that figure is from. As far as VIP, I keep finding 30-50 online but again, no idea where that figure comes from! Is he on the forum? I shall write an email to him immidiately!

I had to stitch the topic together with multiple messages because of the current tech issues with the forum. Unfortunately I'm not able to order the extracts from the Royal Mint properly (the two pieces about the Exhibition are inverted). By the way, here's a similar discussion I started for completeness sake: https://goccf.com/t/479888 The interesting fact that emerged from that discussion is that the Davies book seems to suggest to "ping test" the Crowns to find the silver specimens. Kind of difficult when most of the VIPs are now probably slabbed. Thanks everyone!

A record sale I could find was for 30000£ in 2024 for a 67 UltraCameo (top pop, the one featured in the image above). PCGS Census: https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/elizabeth-ii-1953-1970/1960-crown-s-4143/4004?sn=619056 https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/elizabeth-ii-1953-1970/1960-crown-s-4143-v-p/4004?sn=206568 https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/elizabeth-ii-1953-1970/1960-crown-s-4143-v-p-cam/4004?sn=393750 https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/elizabeth-ii-1953-1970/1960-crown-s-4143-v-p-dcam/4004?sn=528907 Total VIP: 23 NGC Census: https://www.ngccoin.com/population-report/great-britain/13/1902-1970/129/crown/4144/all/463555/varieties/ https://www.ngccoin.com/population-report/great-britain/13/1902-1970/129/crown/4144/all/471241/varieties/ https://www.ngccoin.com/population-report/great-britain/13/1902-1970/129/crown/4144/all/471313/varieties/ https://www.ngccoin.com/population-report/great-britain/13/1902-1970/129/crown/4144/all/471310/varieties/ Total VIP: 33

This is the book I'm referencing in the above post.

Good morning, I have the same issue when trying to open a new topic in the British Coin Related Discussions section. The issue doesn't appear to be IP-specific as I tried a couple of them but it has either to do with posting "too much" content or content with links inside. I had to "stitch" a post together with many edits but the result was not optimal. EDIT: even this comment got blocked.. because it had an emoticon inside

These are the relevant extracts from the Royal Mint Annual Report of 1960.

Hello everyone, I am looking for more information on the different types of proofs which were made for the 1960 British Exhibition Crown. I would very much appreciate some confirmations from the experts in the forum. My current understanding is the following: The 80ies book on Crowns by Davies mentions three proofs: prooflike, vip proofs and even silver ones The Royal Mint Report from that year makes no mention of any of that Regarding the silver ones, the Royal Mint replied to my enquiry that "if it's not in the report it doesn't exist" I could not find sales for the silver version. We have however VIP proofs which are not so infrequently sold One sale on HA mentions proofs "patinated in Silver" for VIP version (Auction #3098 / Lot #33907) No 1960 crowns were minted at the US exhibition (clearly stated in the Royal Mint report), they only minted the medals So all in all: Do Silver proofs exist or is the book by Davis mistaken? Weren't "prooflike" ones already made from polished dies? So what are VIP ones.. super duper polished dies? Are the VIP proofs made by "specially polished dies" or were they plated in silver? In real life, are proof like vs vip ones visibly different? How so? Is it just the cameo effect? Where does the "common knowledge" of the VIP proofs made from polished dies even come from? Are the 30-50 vip vs 70000 prooflike figures validated by any reference/document? And what about the Cameo/UltraCameo/VIP distinction -- is that just a split of the otherwise equal VIP population? Thank you in advance for any info you will be able to share on this matter!