joe_77

Thanks @Paddy ! @copper123 Thanks! Felt like a movie yesterday night and watched "The madness of king george" ! Was quite an interesting watch and learned many dynamics I wasn't aware of between GIII and GIV and what happened that made Victoria became queen. At the beginning of the movie I thought he was done for but it's interesting that he reigned for another good 20 years! His crowns (1818-1820) with the iconic Pistrucci's design were also minted when he was completely ill and his son was reigning. Didn't know that!

Thank you very much @Paddy and @HistoricCoinage ! If anyone wants to add anything please, do keep 'em coming!

Thanks @wlewisiii, @Coinery ! Loved the King's Speech, one of my favourite! Also very much enjoyed the series "Victoria" and too bad it was canceled. Victoria also has some tidy bits about coins and the godless florins. I did watch Elizabeth back in the days and I now see it has a sequel! I will give it a rewatch and add the second movie! About "The King" -- is it the movie from 2019? I couldn't find a series. As far as books, I was thinking about Kings and Queens by Iain Dale .. anyone has a better rec? Or a different route altogether? Thanks!

Howdy all! Been on an UK-related streak lately and I was wondering if anyone can recommend a narrative-like book that goes over all the various monarchs that Britain had over the years? Not looking for an encyclopedia but more of a bedtime reading material. Same request for some movies/series that covers monarchs and their reigns (like "the crown", etc). Thanks a lot!

Good morning everyone! Haven't posted in a while! I was able to get in touch with Mr. Dyer back in September. Although I am still waiting for some additional clarification here is his initial take on the issues at hand. Firstly, concerning the existence of a silver crown: Secondly, concerning the whole VIP vs Proof vs whatnot debate: I shall update the thread in case I receive more details!

I was able to discuss the matter at hand with Spink, which is on record for the buy of lot 322 of the Glendining auction in 1962. I was told that (quoting) "[..] the coin would have been privately sold to a Spink client shortly after; it was typical for English numismatic dealers of that period to bid on behalf of clients". I was also notified by the Spink specialist that Glendining did actually offer such silver crowns in other occasions. We see mention in 4th September 1969 (lot 194); 22nd October 1970 (lot 505) and 25th November 1981 (lot 432). The AR symbol, unless used loosely, should indicate that these were silver. Attaching in this thread following the same order below. Links: https://archive.org/details/catalogueofengli00gle_a48 & https://archive.org/details/catalogueofengli00gle_t4t & https://archive.org/details/catalogueofengli00gle_rgo This further evidence raises some questions: Could they have consistently mistaken VIP proofs as silver? Were these the same coin or are there many specimens around? Consequently, are (or were) these silver versions more common than we thought? It's also worth noting, as pointed out by the Spink specialist, that the writing "..in case of issue" in the 1970 auction might indicate an official distribution by the Royal Mint.

Due to Graham Dyer's retirement from the RMM, the RMM is not able to either forward our queries to him or share his contact details. I tried writing to the BANS but so far no reply. Anyone has a way of getting in contact with him?

The above letter mentions a discussion in the 1958 Report which I believe references the snippet that shall post below.

Good morning all! I'm very happy to share another piece of the puzzle that the Royal Mint Museum was able to unearth! Kudos to them! As mentioned in some prior messages, Day references in "English Silver Crowns" a Communication to the author from the Librarian and Curator of the Royal Mint, dated April 25th 1961. Here's Day's letter and the reply. Surprisingly enough, the exchange also talks about our main query regarding the search of the silver crown!

Thanks everyone, I will ask to the RMM to pass along to Mr. Dyer our main enquiry (Silver proof existence) & whether he has some comments on VIP quantities/origins for the 1960 Crown. After ruminating on the VIP proofs a few day I basically have the same opinion as @VickySilver i.e. they do exist therefore.. whether by accident or intent ..something/someone did something different to make them compared to the way more common proof-like version. Thus, it would be very interesting in understanding more of how they actually came to exists. Understanding this might also shed some light on their quantities.

I would also add that, apart from the glaring silver crown issue, we also have a lot of uncertainty surrounding what we call "VIP Proofs". After my conversation with the Mint it seems obvious that we are really journeying in the dark as far as how many of these were produced. The feeling I got is that there might be even more than we think. The next course of action could be to request the documents suggested by the RMM at the National Archives. Anyone wants to help with that? Another route could be trying to find someone who worked at the Mint during those years but this seems like having a very small chance of success given that 65 have passed.

Hello @VickySilver ! Regarding Glens' numismatist, could he have been Mr. Bill French ? On my quest to find more info I had an exchange with Mr. Mark Rasmussen who worked at Spink since the late 60ies. While he did not see/know personally this silver crown, he also shared your sentiment which I will paraphrase below as I did understand it: I am now pursuing Spink directly, hoping they may provide more paper trail for this silver crown! I am also still trying to: Get in contact with Mr. Davies to confirm if he has more info on the silver crown mentioned in his book. Get in contact with Mr. Michael Day to get more info on the referenced "Communication to the author from the Librarian and Curator of the Royal Mint, dated April 25th 1961". While I talked to the Royal Mint Museum I was told this was probably a private communication between Mr. Day and the Mint and as such it is probably lost unless Mr. Day can provide a copy of it. If anyone has better contacts or can help to get these three enquiries going I will gladly welcome the help!

Hello @VickySilver I posted it some post back, you can see it here: https://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/15028-concerning-proofs-of-the-1960-british-exhibition-crown/?do=findComment&comment=216805

Hello everyone, Between July 22nd and 23rd 2025 I was lucky enough to have a fruitful conversation with The Royal Mint Museum. Please do find below our exchange which will surely provide important information to our quest to better understand the 1960 Crown. What follows is a re-formatted write-up for better reading of the whole conversation but has been cross-checked by the RMM.

Thank you VickySilver! I think this is an intriguing topic and it feels like many information have yet not been properly investigated. Hopefully my effort will be beneficial to the community. By the way, in the 1960 Mint Annual Report we read: "[..] the New York Herald Tribune to caption a photograph ‘While Prince Philip stood by Vice-President Nixon looks through a jeweller’s glass at a British gold coin’" (they are referring to the medal which was struck on site). I wonder if this picture is the one immortalising the moment!

Last reference I found is from English Silver Crowns by Day. Footnotes 220 refers to the Annual Mint Report (which I shared earlier in the post) and 221 refers to the Communication to the author from the Libraria and Curator of the Royal Mint, dated April 25th 1961 (I shall find it and post it).

Continuing the collection of reference material on the matter, here's from English Silver Coinage by Bull. Footnote 3 states "Struck on polished dies for sale at the British Trade Exposition in New York".

I was also able to get a better pic of the Davies book as to properly read the footnotes. Thanks to all the kind people who are helping out on this quest to get more info on these coins!

Thanks for chiming in, oldcopper! Again thanks to Mr. Hill I was able to find the catalogue in question here: https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/auctionlots?AucCoId=512958&AuctionId=534081 Posting here for posterity the relevant bits.

Thank you very much David, it sure does help! Does anyone have the 1962 catalogue from Glendinings ? I'm trying to find also that for completeness sake. If none has it I might try to buy one or ask for help from one of the sellers!

I was able to get a reply from Mr. Hill which I will summarise below. Many Thanks to Mr. Hill for his help! I will try to get in touch with Spink on the matter!

Excellent point! This would also make an easy marker to distinguish between varieties so one would think a reference book would lead with this as opposed to a "ping test" ? Is there any chance to get in touch with Mr. Davies to ask for clarification on this? I wrote to him yesterday; will update if I get a reply!

Hello, thank you for your reply! Could you clarify --- are you saying that you believe more VIP Proofs were minted as opposed to the 30-50 figure I find online OR do you believe the prices are too high for coins with a mintage of say 50? The 30k £ was top pop. Non-top pop specimens go for less, like 4-8k £. One just sold few minutes ago (PCGS PF63 CAM) at auction for 5k £. According to the Annual report we know for certain that 18.000 were brought to New York -- assuming they were all proof-like. Numista states 70.000 for the whole proof-like mintage; not sure where that figure is from. As far as VIP, I keep finding 30-50 online but again, no idea where that figure comes from! Is he on the forum? I shall write an email to him immidiately!

I had to stitch the topic together with multiple messages because of the current tech issues with the forum. Unfortunately I'm not able to order the extracts from the Royal Mint properly (the two pieces about the Exhibition are inverted). By the way, here's a similar discussion I started for completeness sake: https://goccf.com/t/479888 The interesting fact that emerged from that discussion is that the Davies book seems to suggest to "ping test" the Crowns to find the silver specimens. Kind of difficult when most of the VIPs are now probably slabbed. Thanks everyone!

A record sale I could find was for 30000£ in 2024 for a 67 UltraCameo (top pop, the one featured in the image above). PCGS Census: https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/elizabeth-ii-1953-1970/1960-crown-s-4143/4004?sn=619056 https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/elizabeth-ii-1953-1970/1960-crown-s-4143-v-p/4004?sn=206568 https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/elizabeth-ii-1953-1970/1960-crown-s-4143-v-p-cam/4004?sn=393750 https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/elizabeth-ii-1953-1970/1960-crown-s-4143-v-p-dcam/4004?sn=528907 Total VIP: 23 NGC Census: https://www.ngccoin.com/population-report/great-britain/13/1902-1970/129/crown/4144/all/463555/varieties/ https://www.ngccoin.com/population-report/great-britain/13/1902-1970/129/crown/4144/all/471241/varieties/ https://www.ngccoin.com/population-report/great-britain/13/1902-1970/129/crown/4144/all/471313/varieties/ https://www.ngccoin.com/population-report/great-britain/13/1902-1970/129/crown/4144/all/471310/varieties/ Total VIP: 33