Elizabeth I Groats

[Mat]

Hi all

Were there any groats issued between the 3rd and 7th issues of Elizabeth? (not including milled issues).

Spink does not appear to list any unless I have missed it in the book.

Also did any of the first or second issues have a date on? Again Spink lists all the issues 'without date'

Thanks

Mat

[Rob]

Hi all

Were there any groats issued between the 3rd and 7th issues of Elizabeth? (not including milled issues).

Spink does not appear to list any unless I have missed it in the book.

Also did any of the first or second issues have a date on? Again Spink lists all the issues 'without date'

Thanks

Mat

No groats, not even patterns.

There is a dated 1st issue penny, but not much else. The countermarked Edward VI shillings from 1560 were dated, though the date was obviously either 1549, 1550 or 1551.

[Mat]

Hi all

Were there any groats issued between the 3rd and 7th issues of Elizabeth? (not including milled issues).

Spink does not appear to list any unless I have missed it in the book.

Also did any of the first or second issues have a date on? Again Spink lists all the issues 'without date'

Thanks

Mat

No groats, not even patterns.

There is a dated 1st issue penny, but not much else. The countermarked Edward VI shillings from 1560 were dated, though the date was obviously either 1549, 1550 or 1551.

Thanks Rob

In that case I am a little confused with a coin I bought. Its in dire condition but there is clearly a date and you can make out 'Eliz' on the obverse. It is significantly smaller than a 6d and fits the groat size perfectly. Unless there were some significantly reduced 6d flans.... Any ideas?

[Rob]

There isn't anything to suggest it is a groat. It looks like a 6d because it's slightly clipped and in any case they came on different flan sizes - see Spink p.254. The mark is pheon, so 1561 ish onwards. It should be possible to confirm that with the weight. From your questions I presume it doesn't conform to any of the descriptions in Spink, Brown Comber and Wilkinson or any other reference, so do you suspect a forgery? It's so dire that I can't imagine anyone would want it, though I suppose there's always a willing buyer on eBay as I presume you are looking to sell? Don't ask anyone to identify the bust type though unless specific to the flan size.

[Mat]

There isn't anything to suggest it is a groat. It looks like a 6d because it's slightly clipped and in any case they came on different flan sizes - see Spink p.254. The mark is pheon, so 1561 ish onwards. It should be possible to confirm that with the weight. From your questions I presume it doesn't conform to any of the descriptions in Spink, Brown Comber and Wilkinson or any other reference, so do you suspect a forgery? It's so dire that I can't imagine anyone would want it, though I suppose there's always a willing buyer on eBay as I presume you are looking to sell? Don't ask anyone to identify the bust type though unless specific to the flan size.

The weight is 1.95g. Nothing in Wilkinson, have not got Brown. Despite being slightly clipped, it still appears to be slightly undersized to be a 6d. However considering there is no evidence of any such groat and assuming it is not a forgery, I assume it must be an unusually small 6d flan in combination with slight clipping. It can go in the scrap hammered pile for eventual bulk sale unless new evidence comes to light.

[Rob]

There isn't anything to suggest it is a groat. It looks like a 6d because it's slightly clipped and in any case they came on different flan sizes - see Spink p.254. The mark is pheon, so 1561 ish onwards. It should be possible to confirm that with the weight. From your questions I presume it doesn't conform to any of the descriptions in Spink, Brown Comber and Wilkinson or any other reference, so do you suspect a forgery? It's so dire that I can't imagine anyone would want it, though I suppose there's always a willing buyer on eBay as I presume you are looking to sell? Don't ask anyone to identify the bust type though unless specific to the flan size.

The weight is 1.95g. Nothing in Wilkinson, have not got Brown. Despite being slightly clipped, it still appears to be slightly undersized to be a 6d. However considering there is no evidence of any such groat and assuming it is not a forgery, I assume it must be an unusually small 6d flan in combination with slight clipping. It can go in the scrap hammered pile for eventual bulk sale unless new evidence comes to light.

Sounds like a copy. A well worn sixpence would still weigh around 2.5-2.6g. To take 20% more off that would require more clipping.

[Mat]

There isn't anything to suggest it is a groat. It looks like a 6d because it's slightly clipped and in any case they came on different flan sizes - see Spink p.254. The mark is pheon, so 1561 ish onwards. It should be possible to confirm that with the weight. From your questions I presume it doesn't conform to any of the descriptions in Spink, Brown Comber and Wilkinson or any other reference, so do you suspect a forgery? It's so dire that I can't imagine anyone would want it, though I suppose there's always a willing buyer on eBay as I presume you are looking to sell? Don't ask anyone to identify the bust type though unless specific to the flan size.

The weight is 1.95g. Nothing in Wilkinson, have not got Brown. Despite being slightly clipped, it still appears to be slightly undersized to be a 6d. However considering there is no evidence of any such groat and assuming it is not a forgery, I assume it must be an unusually small 6d flan in combination with slight clipping. It can go in the scrap hammered pile for eventual bulk sale unless new evidence comes to light.

Sounds like a copy. A well worn sixpence would still weigh around 2.5-2.6g. To take 20% more off that would require more clipping.

Interesting one... I will hold on to it for a while then to see if anything ever comes up. Thanks for your help on this one.