Unknown Crown sized uniface brass coin/medal

[timlang2]

Hi all

I have a large crown sized brass coloured coin/medal. The coins obverse is George III laureate draped bust but it is facing left? The reverse is blank as is the edge. The text on the obverse says GEORGIUS III DEI GRATIA REX . and has a toothed border. There is also a * . * on a striped truncation. Any knowledge on this piece would be a great help. I can post images if it helps. Many Thanks.

[timlang2]

Here is a pic of the coin.

[timlang2]

I have been advised that the coin may be a trial obverse strike?

It has been suggested that i check a book called "English Proof and Pattern Crown Size Pieces 1658-1960"

Does anyone know or have access to this book?

Many Thanks

[Rob]

There's no mention in Linecar & Stone of an obverse uniface of the Philp bust. The thing that strikes me as odd obout it the sharpness of the rim, or even the fact that it has a raised rim at all. The design was used for the 1811 5/6d Bank Tokens and other patterns, but the rims were as the 1804 dollar which has the toothed border to the edge with no raised rim. W J Taylor made some restrikes using this bust and legend from dies acquired at the Soho Mint closure sale in 1850, but again these do not have a rim of appreciable width. It is clearly copied from the above, but immediate thoughts are that it is likely to be a modern concoction.

Weight, thickness and diameter?

[timlang2]

There's no mention in Linecar & Stone of an obverse uniface of the Philp bust. The thing that strikes me as odd obout it the sharpness of the rim, or even the fact that it has a raised rim at all. The design was used for the 1811 5/6d Bank Tokens and other patterns, but the rims were as the 1804 dollar which has the toothed border to the edge with no raised rim. W J Taylor made some restrikes using this bust and legend from dies acquired at the Soho Mint closure sale in 1850, but again these do not have a rim of appreciable width. It is clearly copied from the above, but immediate thoughts are that it is likely to be a modern concoction.

Weight, thickness and diameter?

Hi Rob

Many thanks for your reply. The weight is 24.2 Grams, Thickness is 2.5 mm, and Diameter is about 40 mm.

After much trawling of the net i managed to find this old description of a coin from an auction which seems to be similar?

My link

Here is a larger pic of the coin

[Rob]

There's no mention in Linecar & Stone of an obverse uniface of the Philp bust. The thing that strikes me as odd obout it the sharpness of the rim, or even the fact that it has a raised rim at all. The design was used for the 1811 5/6d Bank Tokens and other patterns, but the rims were as the 1804 dollar which has the toothed border to the edge with no raised rim. W J Taylor made some restrikes using this bust and legend from dies acquired at the Soho Mint closure sale in 1850, but again these do not have a rim of appreciable width. It is clearly copied from the above, but immediate thoughts are that it is likely to be a modern concoction.

Weight, thickness and diameter?

Hi Rob

Many thanks for your reply. The weight is 24.2 Grams, Thickness is 2.5 mm, and Diameter is about 40 mm.

After much trawling of the net i managed to find this old description of a coin from an auction which seems to be similar?

My link

Here is a larger pic of the coin

Image of the relevant lot is attached below.

Is your picture cropped to give the impression of a round raised rim as the larger image suggests the teeth go all the way to the edge? If so, this puts a slightly different complexion on things. The weight is ok for a brass piece with the dimensions given and the letter alignment together with the shape of the letters suggests it could be genuine. The RA are slightly misaligned in both cases and there is a cluster of rust spots below the bust which suggests it is taken from the original dies and is not a modern production. While there are more rust spots on the catalogue image, this need not necessarily be a problem as Taylor acquired the dies in a rusted state and progressively polished them so that restrikes appear less rusted the later their production. The original Soho pieces struck in 1811 are found rust free, but there may be some later strikings in the period up to 1850. I would be interested in seeing this in the hand, but from the images it could be genuine.

[timlang2]

Many thanks for your reply Rob.

You have raised some interesting points and the picture is invaluable.

I did crop the uploaded image so this may have caused some confusion! - The teeth do go all the way to the edge.

It is probably worth taking the piece to a reputable dealer for appraisal as this piece doesn't fall into a category that i collect and will probably looking to sell or trade.

Anyone know any knowledgable dealers in Bristol area?

Thanks again

Tim