Trying to Unravel the Edward I Class 6 Pennies

[Coinery]

My thoughts:

Essentially we have the Class 5 crown (image here from Withers’ Galata Guide to The Pennies of Edward I and II, 2006), common to Classes 5, 6 and the early 7s. 

Simply put (I think?), if a coin has crown 5 with a pellet on the breast it’s Class 5, and if it has crown 5 with a rose on the breast, then it’s Class 7…all other coins are Class 6 (as I best understand it).

So onto Class 6 and some of the things I’m trying to reconcile?

Firstly, Withers haven’t divided Class 6a into 6a1 and 6a2, unlike Blunt and North (North in his interpretation simply suggests there is a variety of 6a), which does make some sense given the following.

Withers’ Class 6a (or Blunt’s 6a1) is primarily identified by the plain/greek cross and obvious crude workmanship and bust which has almond eyes - the Withers and Blunt images appear to be exactly the same coin for this type (believed to be a best known example, though I’ve yet to see the reverse), with my own (newly acquired) coin from the same die, the only other example I can uncover (so other known coins or images greatly appreciated). 

There is just one possible anomaly with 6a which I haven’t yet cleared up? 

The North 6a plate coin looks to be what Withers’ might be calling (at least in their text) a 6b? Essentially they are saying there exists ‘a London [6b] die with B of hYB punched over the initial cross,’ unless of course this also happened in another die they’ve seen? 

I managed to find a clearer online image of this error on a different coin (highly likely from the same die as North’s plate coin?), appearing to have been sold by Spink, who themselves attribute it as 6a. Maybe it’s a typo in the Withers book, with the line intended to go under the 6a text, or that there is indeed another die with a similar error but on a 6b coin? The North plate coin, and the Spink error-coin image, certainly appear to be 6a coins? Other than this the 6a (or 6a1) looks to be relatively straight forward.

However, the difference between the other class 6 coins becomes slightly more tricky, with 6a2 and 6b both sharing a cross pattee initial mark.

Withers and North go nowhere near the eyes for 6b, but Blunt states clearly that the two faces used on 6b coins now have pellet pupils, leaving (as far as Blunt is concerned at least) all the almond-eyed cross pattee coins to the rank of 6a2, or not belonging to 6b at any rate.

Blunt also marries 6b with long, sloping shoulders and a better bust styling (I agree). However, where does this leave Withers’ 6b plate coin (rounded chin)? This would surely be a 6a2 under Blunt’s assertion? Unless of course these are pellet eyes, and where it gets complicated for me, in view of the example that follows?

I’ve seen our own @descartes old 6a2 coin (changed hands again quite recently), which was validated by DG as such, but this appears to me to have something more transitional than almond eyes, certainly less almond than the Withers’ plate 6b coin? All very unclear, and maybe the reason Withers stayed well clear of it?

I think the 6b (and the 6a under Withers) is a clear class with its new, stylish bust, long sloping shoulders and pellet eyes, but 6a2, where that one slots in is not so clear for me, even when taking the lettering into account?

Anyone want to chuck something in the mix?  I’d really like to wrap my head around this one, once and for all!

Edited September 1, 2024 by Coinery

[Coinery]

[Coinery]

Spink coin, likely the same die as the North plate coin for 6a with the B of hYB over the initial mark.

[Coinery]

Withers’ plate coin…almond eyes or not? What class would you call it?

[Coinery]

Pellet eyes of 6b

[Coinery]

1 hour ago, Coinery said:

Withers’ plate coin…almond eyes or not? What class would you call it?

And Descartes old coin that is thought to be a 6a2, the only example I’ve been able to look at!

Edited September 1, 2024 by Coinery

[Coinery]

Further complicated by this ?6a (6a1) from the Harris sale. Definitely not the crude workmanship of the other examples?

[Coinery]

[Gareth Okeefe 1986]

I completely agree with you on the topic. The 6a2 is an odd one. Looks more like a 6b than than a 6a to me. The portrait seems to match more with 6b. I think the main characteristics for it, is the straight sided lettering. Neither the 6a1 or 6b has this. I have a small collection of class 6. One being 6a1. The rest are all 6b. But are all different dies. All very different.