GEORGE lll CARTWHEEL COINS

[Guest philwatford]

Could anyone help me as a beginner to the world of coins?

Am I correct in thinking that there is both a Penny and a Twopenny George lll Cartwheel coin of 1797 ?

If so, what are the differences between them as they don't appear to carry their value on them- ie) how do I tell one from the other !

Also, would they make a satisfying and rewarding area of collecting for a newcomer; are there quite a few on the market ?

MANY THANKS in advance - PHIL

[Chris Perkins]

Phil,

The easiest wat to tell the difference is by size. The penny is about 35mm, the twopenny (which is huge) is about 41mm.

I have a couple of each for sale, on www.predecimal.com and there were a few in my last newsletter. As a forum member, I'll be please to offer you a little discount.

[mint_mark]

Also, would they make a satisfying and rewarding area of collecting for a newcomer ?

Well, I guess only you could answer that...

There are only two basic types (one penny and two pence), although there are two main varieties of the penny (10 and 11 leaves in the laurel wreath). Maybe there are some other varieties? Don't know...

So you might have a collection of three coins... which could be a bit pricey for the best quality.

There are pattern (like prototypes) cartwheel style halfpennies and farthings, as well as proofs in various metals... but that would be a very expensive collection indeed!

You might extend the idea to include other coins minted by Boulton at the Soho mint (first steam powered mint!)... so that could include the later halfpennies and farthings of George III, as well as some Conder tokens (some look like the cartwheels), some Isle of Man coins and a few colonial issues (also quite expensive I expect).

Would you be satisfied?

[Guest philwatford]

Thank you both for your helpful responses - PHIL

[christoph]

If you can get to a library, have a look at a the reference copy of CW Peck's meisterwork, "English Copper Tin and Bronze Coins in the British Museums". You should soon see that this is arguably the most intricate subject for study in UK coins. Not just the importance of them as the first machined currency coins, and all the patterns proofs etc. There's also the endlessly fascinating story of Taylor - the chap who bought the Soho dies when they were sold off in the Victorian era - and proceeded to restrike many of the coins, mixing up different obverses and reverses in the process.

I also think it's the best-looking coin of all, but it's all subjective I suppose.

[Emperor Oli]

Also, would they make a satisfying and rewarding area of collecting for a newcomer ?

Well, I guess only you could answer that...

There are only two basic types (one penny and two pence), although there are two main varieties of the penny (10 and 11 leaves in the laurel wreath). Maybe there are some other varieties? Don't know...

So you might have a collection of three coins... which could be a bit pricey for the best quality.

There are pattern (like prototypes) cartwheel style halfpennies and farthings, as well as proofs in various metals... but that would be a very expensive collection indeed!

You might extend the idea to include other coins minted by Boulton at the Soho mint (first steam powered mint!)... so that could include the later halfpennies and farthings of George III, as well as some Conder tokens (some look like the cartwheels), some Isle of Man coins and a few colonial issues (also quite expensive I expect).

Would you be satisfied?

I remember being amazed by the ones on Colin Cooke's site - they're quite beautiful.

Gilt proof farthing

Silver Proof Farthing

Silver halfpenny

All contemporary patterns, by the way.

[mint_mark]

There's also the endlessly fascinating story of Taylor - the chap who bought the Soho dies when they were sold off in the Victorian era - and proceeded to restrike many of the coins, mixing up different obverses and reverses in the process.

I'd never heard that story... how do you tell Taylor's restrikes from the originals? Is it obvious? Or maybe he made so few they're not on the market...

[christoph]

There's also the endlessly fascinating story of Taylor - the chap who bought the Soho dies when they were sold off in the Victorian era - and proceeded to restrike many of the coins, mixing up different obverses and reverses in the process.

I'd never heard that story... how do you tell Taylor's restrikes from the originals? Is it obvious? Or maybe he made so few they're not on the market...

They do appear on the market but are more expensive (usually) than the normal issue. You have to consult Peck's book to tell them apart, but there are lots of very minor differences. One reason is that Taylor got a load of proof dies, and used those, often without matching with the right reverse, though you wouldn't know unless you looked close.

Also, the dies weren't in the best condition when Taylor got them, so there are raised rust spots on some strikes, where there was slight pitting on the die. Some dies he sanded down, and you can tell them as well. Also, he retooled one or two - the clues are there, but you need to be virtually an academic to sort them all out! When it comes to the Soho Mint, I'm only a beginner myself...

[Guest eliz]

Phil,

The easiest wat to tell the difference is by size. The penny is about 35mm, the twopenny (which is huge) is about 41mm.

I have a couple of each for sale, on www.predecimal.com and there were a few in my last newsletter. As a forum member, I'll be please to offer you a little discount.

hello Chris,

i have a George 3 coin 1786 Isle of Man legs on back. It's a penny.

Eliz

[Chris Perkins]

Eliz,

I'm not quite sure if the IOM coppers were exactly the same as those from the mainland, off the top of my head. I expect they were about the same because they would have both been based on the copper value.