Mynki

OK, anyone fancy valueing and grading this coin too? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351453278519

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1910-Edward-VII-Silver-Shilling-A-UNC-2/252007782757?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140328180637%26meid%3D596d3f0ffef94f96bf8030a94ee00aa1%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D272040076483 I have my thoughts, but would be most appreciative if you could offer your opinion on it's grading. Thanks in advance.

I think I need to add that it should go without saying that dealers need to earn a living, I'd be being a bit harsh to say the least if I thought otherwise. That said a 1915 Austrian gold 4 ducat restrike can be had from Bullion by post for £367 today direct from their website. Another dealer, MSOWL99 who apparently is someone called Alison Chapman and has featured on ITV's Dickinson's Real Deal and Secret Dealers has the very same coin for sale in her ebay store (Ebay item number381459506891) for £850!!! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-DUCATS-COIN-AUSTRIA-DATED-1915-986-FINENESS-14-0-GRAMS-RARE/381459506891?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D9b5c5cf737e34718b126e24ada24cb6d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D151880927329 With that in mind I'm sure people can understand the need to exercise caution and do their homework before making a significant purchase. Now to be fair as I've portrayed Bucks Coins in a slightly negative light, I did purchaser a 1 ducat coin from him some time ago for a reasonable price, less than the bullion by post price etc. Again, it should go without saying that not all dealers should be tarred with the same brush, there are some truly excellent and honest people out there. As for buying rarities at BV. I'm not that lucky, I'd never expect to do that. From looking at the auctions it seems to me that most sales go for their market rate with only a few bargains to be had. Gold is at a fairly low price today and single sovereigns retailing at £190 each for single purchases. Sell it or any other sovereign back to the same dealer and you'll receive just £164 be it a 2015 bullion coin or something considerably rarer as they don't pay for numismatic value. They do however sell rare coins with that factored in with no description as to the condition of the coin. So newbies to sovereigns as has been really do need to understand the difference.

Yeah, aware of what Spinks sell Azda. To be honest price guides offer some info, but I find it better to create a spreadsheet and detail all sales records in recent years, fees and VAT included of course. It's time consuming but results in more accurate valuations etc. The other benefit is you get to look at many examples of a coin you're interested in. To me it's a hobby, I suspect the bairn will inherit the collection, no plans to flip anything, just collect as a hobby. However I want to ensure I'm not paying over the odds. You've mentioned Bucks coins in recent times so know exactly what I'm referring to.

I've started collecting sovereigns, nothing at all to get excited about just yet but I keep looking. I agree Spinks prices do not accurately reflect the results of coins realised at auction. Yes I'd be prepared to use dealers rather than our man in Nicaragua, and certainly our man in Nigeria. But some do seem on the high side on occasion which for me personally make auctions look more attractive. So what can you do? Is it worth making an offer to a dealer if you believe they're a little high or even very high?

Just out of interest what do people think about proofs vs bullion coins? What the pros and cons of proofs etc?

Would be ok paying around £300, that's what it seems to be worth. I can't imagine the dealer appreciating an offer 33% below list price though. Will wait to see what turns up in the auctions this year.

Good eye appeal but the dealer has it listed at £450 which appears to be on the high side from my investigations so far. Will keep looking...

Gentlemen Could I ask your opinion on the value of a BU George V gold sovereign 1911c Spinks code S3996. Thanks in advance.

So, what dealers have a decent selection of third and quater guineas which are graded honestly and sensibly priced? Incidently I recently bought a very poor example of one from ebay. Just for interest purposes really. It was a BIN listing with a 'make an offer' option. I placed an offer which was significantly below the asking price and just above it's bullion value. My offer was accepted in two minutes. It's arrived, it is genuine, and in the poor condition I expected. Ironically, others in similar condition make more than I paid at auction consistantly. I reckon if I auction it with a starting price of 99p I'll make a tiny profit because some people like the excitement of bidding more than a BIN price. I once offered for sale a bottle of Karuizawa whisky online at a cost of £240. I received a couple of cheeky / insulting offers which I declined and so placed it in a Scotch Whisky Auction instead. The bottle achieved over £500 before 10% commision. Probably bought by a Chinese collector or investor. It's always interestinghow these things work.

If Chards report it themselves, then it should be removed. A process that they're not unfamiliar with... http://taxfreegold.co.uk/thelondoncoincompanylimited.html

But why would it be? No offence, but the ebay call center worker doesn't know you from Adam and so would ignore the reports because they could well be malicious or they may believe that you could be wrong etc. And if the listing isn't breaching any of their policies that they can see at least, then they wouldn't remove it if just working with the reporting feature. An approach from a respected group either directly or via the police might get better results.

Wouldn't it be great if eBay pages had a facility such that rogue items could be reported? Oh wait... Yeah, the problem is, if they were to take direct and immediate action the place would be flooded with malicious reports. It needs a more measured approach. Indeed, but the consequence is that no action is taken and hence the reason why eBay is awash with fake goods. They do take action. Just not enough for some, which I understand. I suppose you could criticise banks in the same manner for laundering money. Despite the checks they have in place to try and stop it, the reality is they'll never stop it entirely, just as ebay won't stop every fake item on there. I have had around 200 - 250 listings removed when I've reported the seller for using my image or listing, some cheeky bar stewards have even copied them word for word! And for breaking duplicate listing policies, so in my experience I can only say they will take action when provided with proof that their rules have been broken in my experience anyway.

I think I'd stand about as much chance of that as you would in pointing me in the direction of where I ever disputed that! Seven days without payment is still very bad form. I'd never consider leaving a seller in the lurch like that!

Wouldn't it be great if eBay pages had a facility such that rogue items could be reported? Oh wait... Yeah, the problem is, if they were to take direct and immediate action the place would be flooded with malicious reports. It needs a more measured approach.

Oh I wouldn't give up so easily. Ebay has had an appaling reputation over the years and they have worked very hard to try and rectify this. I only skim read the thread on a new group but I understand why people want it. Think of the credibility the group would achieve if they did get a result. We all hate scammers after all, so why not try and fight them? Perhaps a call to the police alerting them to your concerns would be a starting point? After all the combined value of the three coins is significant. The police would at least be able to contact the buyer in theory who may then be able to get his money back if it was proven the seller had bought the coins direct from China as suggested. What the idea needs is someone with courageous integrity to investigate what can be done, and to see it through if possible.

Thank you for the link. I asked because I wondered if ebay's trust and safety department would be interested in such dodgy practises? Perhaps the new group borne out of this forum could pursue a line of enquiry and offer to work with ebay to help reduce the number of such listings? Just a though.

Paulus - It's simple really, I've basically looked at available stock, got the Spinks code and created an Excel spreadsheet with all the sales going back over the last five years. I didn't really see the point in going back much further etc. Basically you record the coin code, year, condition, auction house, date, lot number and other pertinent details as well as the sales price. There are a couple of formulas in there to add buyers premiums and related costs etc depending on the relevent auction house. You can then see a real world price as opposed to what is in the Spinks catalogue etc. I've only done a few coins that I'm interested in so far, but I'm sure it will grow into a worthwhile resource in time as and when I've added more data etc. I'm sure many of the dealers on here have something very similar, but likely with far more useful data than mine at present. Hope that helps. Peter - The gentleman has been informed. He does acknowledge that his price is somewhat ambitious, however as he only paid £43 for it apparently, then he's happy to sit on it for some time....

Exactly, that's why I used the word 'moot' twice as it's irrelevent to this discussion. Incidentally the rules for BIN's and auctions are the same in this context, so I'm resisting going for the hat-trick at present... None of our 1200 or so BIN listings demand payment immediately. Though I believe you can set your settings so that listings can be set for immediate payment, very few people do though as you really want your customers to browse your shop and purchase multiple items ideally, this would cause an issue for many as customers wanting multiple items would pay multiple P&P charges potentially. You'll find too, as previously stated, that when you do start opening cases people tend to pay up sharpish. It's very rare that they ignore this as they receive a strike against their account. Some sellers including myself have their shops configured to reject bids from buyers with so many such strikes against them so you can avoid the timewasters. Slightly off topic, but it could be of interest to some in the future when coming across bad payers etc. Perhaps much less relevent to small volume sellers.

There are some very large businesses trading on ebay these days. However find e one, just the one will do that will accept payment after three months on a buy it now auction. You're point there is somewhat moot in context. Yes there is a seven day rule, but why then can yoiu open a case after just three days? lol If you read the ebay rules you will see that commiting to buy is a binding contract, so you've made a second moot point when referrring to buyers who say NO after placing a bid etc. I fully apreciate that there are certain very specific instances where a bid retraction can be made. But again these are not relevant in context. It would be a foolish seller indeed who packed and shipped goods without receiving payment via an ebay member indeed! You wouldn't be covered by either ebay or paypal seller protection policies for a start.

If you read ebay rules on payment it states a buyer is allowed 7 days to pay. I think opening cases after 3 days is a little pushy in my opinion, i would certainly open one after 5 if a buyer had'nt emailed too say it would be delayed or payment would be made on a certain day. I'm well aware of all the rules. Many traders have their shops automatically configured to open a case after three days. I'm happy with just the two complaints out of all of the instances where this will have occured. I don't think it's pushy really. Look at it from the sellers point of view, we're currently doing several hundred orders per month, I expect to be around 900 ish in november. Is it fair to keep the seller waiting? Particularly when all of our listings are buy it now etc.

Two of my shops are configured to open a case after three days. In several years of trading and tens of thousands of transactionsI've only ever had two people complain. I think most people know that they should be paying up and opened cases are usually closed within a couple of days as a result.

I don't suppose you have a link to the seller do you please Peter?

How important is it from an investment point of view? Is a coin auctioned by a reputable auction house sold from a known collection more desirable? Your thoughts please...

I collect guineas by type. They seem to have very high prices for an item that most people don't appear to collect. I suspect most people buy one or two they like and that's it. The rarity ratings for guineas and prices in the various catalogues are wildly out (IMHO). Philip I've noticed the prices in Spinks catalogues being wildly innacurate. I've created a spreadsheet detailing grade and prices realised of some issues over the last few years from popular auction houses and there is a massive difference. As much as 100% with some!