hay thanks guys logged back on and was suprised to see such great resposes. thank you so much , i am wanting to collect for fun ,and you never know one day might bag myself a whinner! but mainly i want to collect for my kids and let them be involved i remember my gradfather collecting coins when i was a kid we would sneak a peak every now and then unfortuanty when he died he left them to my cousin and rather than keeping them he cashed them in greedy bugger ! and a shame as i feel collections should be passed down the family line . but thanks again guys and will definitely be using this forum to learn the skills and will look in to the books you recommended peter cheers Alan