Sword

I think the opposite is true and many of us are just tired of disputing the "judgement" of TPGs. Discussions about CGS is now so boring as they don't deserve this level of interest in my view. It is a company that has gone out of business and has never been independent in the first place. LCGS is simply a department of London Coins and so it is a First Party Grader rather than than Third. Its interest is just to make a profit for London Coins. In the past, people can get hot under the collar with discussions regarding TPGs and so it's wise not to get involve too often.

Not as VIP as far as I can see. The description was: "George VI Proof Crown 1937 PR67 Cameo NGC, Royal mint, KM857. Tied with one other proof for finest known to date at NGC this lightly frosted crown is an exceptionally well defined with flawless fields. We anticipate spirited bidding for the lot. From the Cape Coral Collection of British Crowns" https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-george-vi-proof-crown-1937-pr67-cameo-ngc-/a/3063-35044.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515 He really needs to stop and reflect on what he is doing.

You have got to laugh. He is now selling another example as a VIP proof for £1625. No mention of VIP by NGC as far as I can tell. Hope he knows what he is doing this time. https://simonwilliscoins.com/item/S4079%20A/1937%20Silver%20Crown%20FDC%20PF67%20CAM

He has finally done the right thing and stopped describing the coin as a VIP proof on his website. I wonder if he has been reading the comments posted here.

I think the normal procedure is to artificially tone the coin afterwards. Obviously it is only worthwhile if the coin was valuable originally. I agree that on this occasion, it is best to leave the chain alone.

The metal alloy used for brazing has a melting point range of 618oC to 899oC. The melting point of pure silver is 962oC. Melting point of sterling would be lower and could be around 893oC . Hence I guess it can be done with care if one is lucky. Might be the restorers will only go up to a certain temperature like 750 or 800 oC and give up if the metal alloy does not start to melt? If the melting point of the metal alloy is very close to the melting point of sterling, then the coin surface underneath has probably already been damaged in the brazing process anyway. We have all seen photos of coins which have stuff successfully removed. But surely there must be a fair number of cases where restoration is impossible.

Since the melting point of silver is considerably higher than solder, I guess the obvious thing to do is to use high temperature to melt the solder and then remove the molten solder. Had a very quick look on the web and found two methods. One involve soaking up the molten solder using a desoldering wick. A desoldering wick is weaved from copper fibre and can soak up the molten solder by capillary action. The other way is to use a solder sucking device.

You are kidding about this specimen being in excellent preservation right? If I have to buy a satin Churchill, I won't buy one with so many marks even if it is cheap.

Warwick and Warwick has this example for sale in their next auction. Described as "satin finish VIP Specimen, about uncirculated, some scratches to field on obverse." with an estimate of £1800. Really a VIP satin? It sure looks very ugly!

"it had a very faint but rather dull patina, that did the coin,no justice at all,so I reluctantly took the decision to,give it a light polish,it turned out to be the right decision,as it has great eye appeal,and that ,will be enhanced even more in a few years time" I hate to think what he would call heavy polishing. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1849-Godless-Florin-superb-coin-great-eye-appeal/263463383277?hash=item3d57a430ed:g:qZ4AAOSwl2haGBGG

I am stunned... I don't think I am alone in saying that I certainly don't want to buy anything from anyone with this type of philosophy. Sure. I too will now leave this tread.

Exactly the point. If there is doubt about the coin's VIP status, he should have described it using caveats such as "possibly" or "could be" VIP. It was simply wrong not to do so. I doubt he made any apology as he is still listing the thing as a VIP proof.

A dealer is certainly at liberty to disagree with a TPG attribution. However, why has he reduced the price to only one sixth of the original amount (£475 from £2850) if he still believes the coin to be a VIP proof? No one would slash his price like that unless there is a very good reason. S4079 refers to both the normal proof and VIP proof. The PCGS population report was probably referring to the ordinary proof crowns. He has now removed the reference to ESC4022 which specifically refers to the VIP proof. He is now not mentioning only 6 pieces struck. The previous title was " George VI Silver Crown 1937 Coronation Frosted VIP Proof Crown S4079 FDC/PR65Cam". Now it is just "1937 Crown FDC / PR65 CAM". However, he is still using the phrase "Frosted VIP Proof Crown" in the description.

I have never had any dealings with the seller in question. However, I do think his behaviour on this occasion to be somewhat below the standard expected from a reputable dealer. He listed the coin on Ebay as a VIP proof crown with a price tag of well over £2K. He claimed it is of R5 rarity with only 6 minted and the coin was struck in “pure silver”. He did not reply to a negative feedback calling the coin a scam. Everyone have the right of silence but not responding to this sort of accusation might be interpreted as an admission of guilt. I was originally quite sympathetic as it could have been just an honest mistake and the manners of the buyer was unhelpful to put things mildly. He is now trying to sell the coin on his own website with a much reduced price of £450. He now states that PCGS has graded 23 examples above his PR65. However, he is still describing the coin as a VIP proof! He knows jolly well that this is not possible if it is of R5 rarity. https://simonwilliscoins.com/item/S4079/1937%20Silver%20Crown%20FDC%20/%20PR65%20CAM

The as (plural asses) was indeed a Roman denomination. The silver denarius was initially worth 10 asses. A Nero As. (Courtesy of Wikipedia)

It's only a common ass featured on the coin I am afraid. Worth less than 30p in mint state. Hope we don't feel like that at work on Monday!

As far as I know, no one is certain what caused it. I think there is some theory about hay being mixed into the molten metal.

Isn't that just hay marking? If so, it is largely tolerated as it occurred during the minting process and cannot be removed.

It is rarely a good idea for a beginner to have a coin slabbed and graded. The first few coins that a beginner get are usually not of high enough grades or valuable enough to warrant paying the grading fee. I would not even consider sending an EF 1884 S sovereign to be graded as the expense will probably be about 15 or 20% of what the coin is worth. And if it turns out to be VF, the value is virtually scrap gold and you have totally wasted your fee. I can remember several beginners visiting this forum in the past, have paid for their coins to be graded and have simply wasted their money. One graded a fake dug out of his garden thinking it was valuable. Another tried to grade an undated 20p which was probably worth less than £50. One graded a florin which turned out to be obviously cleaned with a value not much more than the grading expenses.

Just out of curiosity, I had a look at Company House, which is a government website. It appears that CGS has only just applied to have itself struck off and will be dissolved in two months time. Technically, it is still active at the moment. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05485615/filing-history As far as one can tell, LCGS is not a company but is simply a department of London Coins. Not that any of this actually matters but I thought I would share it anyway.

I would regard something as a coin if it could have been spent when it was issued. E.g., although the 1935 rocking horse crown was not intended for circulation, some were actually circulated. Indeed, I remember having a very worn example when I was a pre teen collector and so it must have been accepted as currency in its days. I define a coin very loosely and would regard something very closely related to a circulating coin as having coin status. Hence, I have no problem in accepting piedforts as coins. I have read somewhere that the raised edge 1935 crown is not technically legal tender but it is similar enough to the incuse edge currency version. Patterns are not quite real coins for me and I regard them as just unadopted designs. (But I would love owning them and so they have honorary coin status for me) But I don't consider something to be a coin simply because it has £100 written on it because it cannot be spent as money. (And I don't want to buy any of them)

Indeed. Commemorating Prince George's fifth birthday? But there is no edge inscription. Something like "I can now spell cat" would be quite appropriate. And yes, £610 asking price is frightful.

He has got feedbacks for selling at least 15 of these things already. I am just not very sympathetic for people still wanting to buy from him.

It's definitely the thought that counts. It's an heirloom!

Enjoy the odd stroke of luck but don't expect to have such luck regularly. I recall hearing a Chinese phrase when I was a child which translates to “To guard a tree-stump waiting for rabbits” The story goes: one day a farmer was working in the fields and he saw a rabbit carelessly bumping into a tree stump and breaking its neck. The farmer took the rabbit indoors and cooked it. Later on that night he was thinking to himself “wow, I don’t need to farm anymore. All I need to do is to wait for a rabbit to run and kill itself each day by the stump”